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Author Topic: Moby Dick  (Read 1398 times)
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clt2msb
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« on: April 07, 2004, 11:23 AM »

My bandmates have decided that I have no choice but we are going to play "Moby Dick".  I'm definitely not a Bonham-style player, and I'm wondering if I should take the extra time to try and learn to play the drum solo as close to the recording as possible or just do my own thing.  My drums aren't going to sound like his (more like Dave Weckl's), and I'm still debating on the "playing with my hands" part they keep asking me if I'm going to do.  Is the solo well known enough that if I don't play it as close as possible that everyone will notice and be "put off" by it?  Or will I just offend any passing drummers who would know it verbatim?  

Thanks for any advice...
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staringelf
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2004, 11:40 AM »

i hate that drum solo. in fact i hate most drum solos. i mean, 25 minutes is a ridculous amount of time for any type of solo. its just self indulgent w*nk as far as i'm concerned. i also think john bonham is one of the most overrated drumers ever. i hate his horrible flat lifeless sounds that he produced on his kit and i think led zeppelin are one of the most boring, self indulgent bands i've ever heard. just my 2 euro cents. ok, let the insults and screaming at me commence..
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tonys
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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2004, 11:41 AM »

I would not mess with a classic, I would and do try to play it somewhat close to the original.

Just one persons opinion. Wink

And Staringelf  - I think you are in trouble. Wink
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Nubert Thump
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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2004, 11:42 AM »

I would think that if a band is going to have a song that contains a drum solo the drummer should be the one who picks the song.  That being said, if they insist on doing Moby Dick you need decide which way you are more comfortable doing the solo--try to do it like Bonham as close as possible or do your own thing or a little of both. You could structure the solo similar to Bonzo but use you own licks. There are a lot of possibilities.

I still feel this is a decision that a band should make with their drummer NOT for him/her.
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hippie
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2004, 01:15 PM »

   I think that if you opened the solo in a similar way to the original (a big crash and then a pause and then go into some hand drumming on the snare) then you can do your own stuff and build off the original idea. And try to hear the main ideas in his solo and use them as well. That way it will feel like the original but you don't have to play it note for note. And don't forget to insert a lot of loud and fast Bonham triplets!! (RLF)
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2004, 01:17 PM »

staringelf -- you are soooooooooo in trouble!! Grin bonham was king! [seriously, you should really, really, really check out his playing in depth. it's easy to dismiss him as simple, but... well, wait. it's NOT easy to dismiss him as simple!]  Tongue

but regarding the solo...

i am generally a play-by-the-book person with respect to covers. however, i think we have a little leeway with solos. since most people [except drummers] probably don't know that drum solo by heart, you have some flexibility. but i would still try to capture the essence of the solo.

fwiw, i watched my old teacher do that tune at a gig he had. he actually did a better solo than bonham. but people being people, you had a couple of wiseass*s [non-drummers] in the audience saying, 'oh look at this dude -- he thinks he's bonham.' and i'm thinking, 'would you just shut up?'

at the end of the day, i think in this instance you are free to do what you want. but let the original be your guide.
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hippie
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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2004, 01:20 PM »

i hate that drum solo. in fact i hate most drum solos. i mean, 25 minutes is a ridculous amount of time for any type of solo. just my 2 euro cents. ok, let the insults and screaming at me commence..

   If you've ever heard the original then you'd know that it's not even close to 25 minutes, it's not even 4 and a half minutes long.

   That's fine that you hate the drum solo, and drum solos in general; that's your opinion and no one's going to insult you or scream at you. This isn't that type of forum.
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Andrew
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2004, 01:56 PM »

i hate that drum solo. in fact i hate most drum solos... and i think led zeppelin are one of the most boring, self indulgent bands i've ever heard. just my 2 euro cents. ok, let the insults and screaming at me commence...

Yeah. No one's coming to come out swinging, the way you kind of did in this post. I feel I should point out, though, that this thread is not "Do you like Led Zeppelin, 'Moby Dick' or drum solos in general?", it's a pretty specific question. And while I appreciate that you maybe needed to get some observations about Zeppelin and Bonham off your chest, this isn't exactly the right thread to do that in.

Back to the original question - I would probably feel obliged to hit the major motifs of the original solo, but given that Bonham changed its length to suit his needs, maybe you can change its length to suit yours and play an 'abridged' version - I think that, in club situations, you're likely to lose people during a drum solo.

Also (and I realize I'm veering off-topic a little), I think people might bear with you through "Whole Lotta Love" more readily than through "Moby Dick."
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2004, 03:14 PM »

i hate that drum solo............
But how do you really feel?

In answer to the original posted question, I would say that one of the signature parts of Moby Dick is the fact that Bonham played part of it with his hands.  I saw Led Zep live once in '74 and he played part of the solo with his hands.  I would say that if anybody knows anything about Led Zeppelin and Moby Dick in particular, the first thing they would ask is "did the drummer play the part with his hands?"
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kofi
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2004, 05:04 PM »

well answered guys!!! Iits awesome to see the love and respect we all have for one another on this message board realy really koool! bUt my 2 cents  (Canadian so its much cheaper), You can never play like anyone my advice is, be original and try to write or compose your own solo. Learn to play like you, but not like someone else cos the credit will go to him and not you. goodluck
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dogxray
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2004, 06:05 PM »

You could chop it down to however long you want to do it. But I would not stray to far from the original solo in musical form. If I saw a band and they played that song and the drummer went off and did his own"interpretation" I'd laugh my ass off at him or her. To me that would be lame. Playing with the hands would be an option but I doubt if it would be appreciated by the masses.
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2004, 07:34 PM »

I don't know, man.  Moby Dick seems like kind of an odd song to play at a club.  IMO some songs are 'sacred' and just not made to be covered.  This would seem like one of them.

Besides, if they are making you play a song (with an open drum solo) that you're not really into, I don't know...it just seems odd.  Maybe they should reconsider.  There are plenty of other Zep tunes that are more accessible.  

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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2004, 09:07 PM »

I would focus on getting some of the signature licks and things in that solo.

Actually, I'd get both the beginning and ending right and would build the solo itself based on my own playing. Those are the only parts anybody can identify from the song inmediately (people familiar with it I mean).

And I second the comment, YOU should pick the drum solo, not the band.
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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2004, 10:04 PM »

My bandmates have decided that I have no choice but we are going to play "Moby Dick".  I'm definitely not a Bonham-style player, and I'm wondering if I should take the extra time to try and learn to play the drum solo as close to the recording as possible or just do my own thing.  My drums aren't going to sound like his (more like Dave Weckl's), and I'm still debating on the "playing with my hands" part they keep asking me if I'm going to do.  Is the solo well known enough that if I don't play it as close as possible that everyone will notice and be "put off" by it?  Or will I just offend any passing drummers who would know it verbatim?  

Thanks for any advice...

All covers are open for interpretation, IMO, especially a song from a band notorious for extended jams. A song that is 30 years old, mind you, and not often covered. There are musical hooks the crowd is expecting from a cover, not note-for-note drum solos. Even if it's a serious Led Zep crowd (and how many of those are there in the world?), unless you are an exclusive Zep tribute band, three in 100 people will even care what kind of drum solo you play.

My suggestion? Don't play into your bandmates' Led Zeppelin fantasies. You are not John Bonham, they are not Led Zeppelin, and the crowd is simply wanting to have a good time. Whatever you do, make sure you appease the crowd.
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vertijoe
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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2004, 06:27 AM »

Having recently purchased the Led Zeppelin DVD, and watching Bonham do a ~15 min. version of "Moby Dick", Bonham doesn't play it like the record.  I'm not a big fan of playing drum solos, but I always like a good one when I hear it.  Bonham was a ground breaker, and a free spirit.  If it were me, I would put together basic frame work, and then play whatever moved me at the moment within that framework.  Have fun, play what makes you smile.  
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Tony
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« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2004, 06:37 AM »

I wouldn't play it if I wasn't into it.  That being said, I wouldn't worry too much about copping it lick for lick, just stick to the general theme.  

Staringelf, dude, nice first post.  Come out of the gate swinging for cryin' out loud.  At this point, you damage any credibility you may have expected to have.  This is not your typical forum, so check out the rules and read around to see the general atmosphere.  It will probably save you some problems in the future.
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« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2004, 10:12 AM »

i hate that drum solo. in fact i hate most drum solos. i mean, 25 minutes is a ridculous amount of time for any type of solo. its just self indulgent w*nk as far as i'm concerned. i also think john bonham is one of the most overrated drumers ever. i hate his horrible flat lifeless sounds that he produced on his kit and i think led zeppelin are one of the most boring, self indulgent bands i've ever heard. just my 2 euro cents. ok, let the insults and screaming at me commence..
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« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2004, 11:50 AM »

What the hay, give the tune a whirl and play it the best you can, throw in some of your own licks as well.  I think John would have liked that.

Kind of a weird tune for a club though.  I notice that I'm an old fart in clubs anymore- kinda weird.  Then I look at other older people and think *my, don't they look out of place*.  All the clubs I play at the kids wanna hear rap- metal or a combination there of.  Havn't graduated to the blue hair/blood jazz club scene.  Heck the nicest jazz clubs in town a kid couldn't even afford to get a buzz on- let alone the cover charge.
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« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2004, 07:43 PM »

As a BIG Bonham fan I feel I have to say something here but everyone has pretty much said what I was going to say. My suggestion is kind of a summation of a couple of other peoples ideas.
1. I really don't think anyone at a club would dig this song, just not the type of song people will find interesting, unless...you make the actual solo about 2 minutes or less long.
2. Bonzo didn't play the same solo everytime, so if you do have to do it, I would use the major recognizable licks and make up the rest on your own.
and lastly
C. Is there no european expression for- If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all? New guy, you should probably do a bit more browsing here and get to know how this forum is before trying to start flame wars. Welcome to the Cafe, we aren't like all the others you go to, trust us.
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staringelf
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« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2004, 04:43 AM »

As a BIG Bonham fan I feel I have to say something here but everyone has pretty much said what I was going to say. My suggestion is kind of a summation of a couple of other peoples ideas.
1. I really don't think anyone at a club would dig this song, just not the type of song people will find interesting, unless...you make the actual solo about 2 minutes or less long.
2. Bonzo didn't play the same solo everytime, so if you do have to do it, I would use the major recognizable licks and make up the rest on your own.
and lastly
C. Is there no european expression for- If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all? New guy, you should probably do a bit more browsing here and get to know how this forum is before trying to start flame wars. Welcome to the Cafe, we aren't like all the others you go to, trust us.


 :owhhoooaaa. hold up. i'm not trying to start a flame war. i'm simply giving my opinion on the solo. ok, i appreciate that the topic was what to do with the solo and not do you like/dislike it so for that i apologize, that was my first post and it had nothing to do with the topic so i shouldn't have posted it. but god i don't like led zeppelin, i just think they're way overrated although i can understand why people do like them so... but, i promise to be good and constructive from here on in. Wink
clt2msb good luck with the solo, hope it goes well.
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