DRUMMER CAFE

My recent, uh, drama on another post got me thinking a lot about live versus studio playing. It seems it's easier to get live gigs than studio gigs and that many around here (me included) have more experience in the former.

I have some thoughts on the subject, but I wanted to open a discussion on the different ways drummers play given the two situations. In what ways does one apply him/herself to the act of performing in the studio that is different from live? What about professionalism? Working with producers?

Finally, for purely selfish reasons I wanted to ask if the studio guys around here could offer any tips on how a live-oriented drummer might approach the kit differently in the studio. Strictly in terms of mechanics and getting great performances.

The only real differences for me are that I play a little more "robotic" in studio.  In other words I try to make it easy for the band and the engineer to go with me, over a drum machine.  I also play much harder, so I can get the true sound of my kit on the recording.

Live, I am free to be as dynamic as I want and I can "experiment" more and be more Bonham-like.

Well I still young and haven't had too much studio experience but the one thing I most remember is "centre of the drum".  Man that engineer didn't want me hitting in any other spot.  I was used to playing near the rims of the snare if I was playing softly but that turned out to be a very definate no-no in the studio.....

Wow Tme,  It's sounds like you had some bad recording experiences, lol.  Not all engeniers want dead sounding toms, just does bad ones who can't get a good sound out of them, a good engenier likes resinence

I will disagree that there's no dynamics in recording, I do it all the time, do you have to play louder then usual, not that much louder, unless you play really soft, but if there were no dynamics then everyone would be a studio drummer.

I like to really get tight with what I'm playing before recording and let the "experts" help with the design of the sound. But like someone mentioned earlier, if the band is tight and you can perform it live it seems to me always better. That's when the band CAN be dynamic and roll better with each other. Of course everyone is seperated, but live (recording) is better for me.

One engineer recently tuned my toms with a piano and I was facinated. I've read about tuning, but have never been too caught up in trying to make my toms range from the 1st 3rd and 5th. But this engineer did a great job and the recording came out beautiful.

Live is a different story. Playing in front of an audience tends to create a vibe that you sort of feed off of. Even "live" albums are usually overdubbed and mixed to the hilt so that the true sound is kind of lost. They really are two different worlds.

I think though it comes down to being relaxed in the studio as much as possible. There's money to consider, time constraints, all of that frustrating stuff -- and one just has to get that zone thing going. Kind of a zen approach.

Drumlooney, you're right.  My few studio experiences have sucked royally.  As for drummers deliberately playing without dynamics, that's because the idiot engineers demand they play that way.  The worst recording I ever made was in one of the most expensive studios in Toronto (Gold records on the wall, the whole bit).

Since then, I've been paying a lot of attention to recordings made in Toronto, and who recorded them.  All the good drum sounds I've heard have been recorded by small studios that specialize in Jazz and still use the large format magnetic tape, at least for the initial recording.

How viable would it be for me to record the drum tracks at one of these studios and then let the band take them to whatever digitalized beer commercial production facility they want to use?

should be totally viable.  if possible, have the tape studio you like record you with a click (itll make everything easier later) and then send that recording to a protools setup.  they can then burn the protools work to cd and you can take that to any of the fancy studios the other guys want to use.  

of course the studio you want to use has to have a protools set up, but it seems like most do these days.

just be sure to ask the cats in both studio if its cool ... some get edgy about using other peoples tracks or some might not even have the technology to pull it off.

as for clicks, yeah ... I want my drum machine back for that ... im sick of the metronome

Man, you have producers on the brain.

It's really kinda pathetic.  Why don't you just have fun with music and forget about them.  If you worry about how you play all the time every note you play has the possibility of not beeing good enough.

You have to be yourself and kick their a$$.  

I can't imagine anyone wanting to be "produced".  Then you would be a "product".... and then people would say "your product sucks".  And then you would be very unhappy because your product isn't selling.

Well folks in my studio, I don't do anything or ask anyone to do things different than when they play out.

I am a drummer and own a small studio.  I feel that some drummers hold back because they feel that they are on the clock and don't want to screw up the music .  They sometimes try too hard.........then they screw up.  Felix is right in stating to play as usual, but just listen to the producer, or the engineer,(which I'm both in my case) for additional advice.  Sometimes these guys/gals want too much from a drummer, set-ups, where to play on the drum(there's a new one).  In my studio the drummer gets attention because he's the one that takes up more time in setup and getting ready.  This is not bad because these people like myself is the timepiece for the songs.

My advice to you would be  to be yourself, ask questions to the engineer or producer that will make you feel comfortable in the sessions.  Don't be afraid to ask questions about the set up, the headphones that you will be using, how the mix will come together, if a mistake is made how will the studio fix it.  Will the studio allow for a little warm up period for you and the group.

Set up an appointment with the studio to visit ahead of time and talk to those folks to feel comfortable with the studio team, if possible.

The drums will be miked, and the engineer would have a good idea that things are set up properly.  You shouldn't need to worry.

What bothers me is some of these people are really asking the drummer to do things out of the ordinary.  This is a bunch of crap.  Your set up should be the same for you not the engineer.  You should not have to re adjust your set or your playing to accomodate the producer or the engineer.  The engineer is getting paid to engineer the sound.  You produce it, it is up to the engineer to capture it.  You shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get a good sound in a controlled environment.

It is really amazing to here some of these comments.  I guess some studios have different agendas to take to the table, but it should be in sound reinforcement and not your playing and setup of the drum field.

The other drummers that come into my studio seem to be holding back, I sense this being a drummer and tell them to let it happen.  If the drummer is to tense I tell the group to practice a little to allow the drummer to get warmed up.

But that is the way I do business.  Some studios have different ideas and work differently with the bands in which I cannot attest to.

My opinion and take on this issue.

Jazzman

For whatever it's worth ... here's my thoughts and approach.

I don't really treat playing live or the studio that much differently. Everytime I play, regardless of the setting, I try to play strong, with conviction ... and balance the kit accordingly. For example, when playing a standard Rock groove ... my snare is the loudest, with the kick drum about the same (maybe 5 dB less depending on the sound I want) and the hihat at almost half of what the snare drum is. If I were to give a decibel rating it would be as follows:

• Snare - 85 dB
• Kick - 80 dB
• HiHat - 45 dB

This is just to give a visual picture only and is not necessarily a rule of thumb.

People tend to comment that I sound like I am a trained musician. I don't take this as a negative comment because I WANT to sound like I know how to control  the kit. I feel that I can play loose or tight ... it all depends on what the music calls for. I think it's a misconception by some people that because you are trained you are going to sound stiff; or non-trained means more looseness or feeling. I personally think that's just crazy. The only reason someone would fit that stereotype is if they are unable to get their head where it needs to be in order to play the music. It's like the whole playing on top, on back, or right on the beat. I used to analyze that to death ... and know what I need to do technically to make each on of those happen ... but just FEELING the music is a much easier approach. Studio greats such as J. R. Robinson would totally agree with my last statement.

I always approach playing the drums STRONG ... both live and studio. If the venue is small and can not handle this much energy, then I back off ... bringing it down to the level it needs to be for the gig ... but being sure to maintain the proper balance in the kit.

As far as playing more simply ... I would just say that I am more selective of my musical vocabulary. I take just as many risks when I'm in the studio as I would live ... but then again, I'm an average drummer who is not into flash. I just play the music and do what is necessary to make it feel good.

Producers higher musicians because of what they bring to the table. They WANT you to be creative! I rarely run into someone that doesn't want me to be creative. Most producers don't really know what they want ... specifically. They just know that they want to invoke some sort of mood or vibe ... and typically don't know how to get there. That's where the creative musician comes into play. They need you to take their ideas and words ... and put it on the drums. I always leave myself some creative room when I play. If I'm playing a simple two-beat groove, and the producer says "Bart, can you make that sound more funky?", I don't play my slickest, most difficult funk groove I know. I add a little more, then a little more (if needed). If the chef says "needs more salt" you don't dump the whole canister of Morton Salt in the stew do you?

One thing I try to make a point of doing is to find out what the BIG picture is for the tune I'm tracking. If it's a trio, I've got lots of room to stretch out; if it's an orchestra session, then I play more open or less busy. It's like driving a sports car versus a semi-tractor trailer. A sports car can take fast turns and stop on a dime, a semi can not ... in fact, you must make your turns very wide and deliberate. The more instruments or voices in the mix, the more room you have to leave; otherwise it just gets cluttered and sounds terrible. All those 32nd-note fills are just going to get lost in a big session ... and tend to not print well to tape ... so keep that in mind.

So in summary, my philosophy is as follows ......

• Same what you mean, and mean what you say. If you play something, play it with conviction like you mean it. Don't noodle around or play something half heartedly.
• Play the music and what is needed to make the music feel good. Get into the song and know what it's about.
• Practice enough so that you naturally balance the kit when you play. If you are uncomfortable it WILL show up on tape.
• Make sure you equipment is in good working condition, and sounds good BEFORE you show up to the session.
• Be easy to get along with, open-minded, bathe regularly, and just be an overall great human-being. Typically you'll get the call back because it's 90% relationship.

To me, if there's a big difference between playing live and playing in the studio ... then something isn't going right on my part. It may be that, of course, the producer or engineer don't really know what they are doing ... or perhaps they are just very green. For me, I try to refine my playing and have a goal of truly mastering the drums. I have such a LONG way to go, but hey, that's what life is all about. If you refine your LIVE playing, you'll have no problems in the studio.

If some of you haven't already done so, I would encourage you to check out my 5-Minute Lesson on Studio / Session Drumming. I still have more to write, but Parts 1 and 2 are finished.

_{As always, this is just my opinion and approach ... which works for me.}

depends on the situation.  sometimes yeah, if theres a perfectionist involved.  but when im engineering I usually tell people ahead of time that if they screw up, keep going and ignore it.  if theres the right "vibe" on that track despite an error it could well be the best take.  also, ive found that most "errors" are totally unoticable to anyone other than the musician playing it  the problem arises when a musician feels they screwed up and then dwell on it.  theyll inevitably make more mistakes then.  thats why I try and make the situation as comfy and friendly and painless as possible so the musicians can relax.  

matt chamberlain is a great example of a killer studio drummer.  his general philsophy is to just play.  hes even said that if on a snare shot he hits the rim more than the head its no biggie.  its the nature of things and those little mistakes make everything feel real and organic.  

felix, it's only "good" music, if the band sounds as good live, as they do on CD.  For example, Rush.