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Author Topic: "Predictability is More Important than Greatness"  (Read 1269 times)
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smoggrocks
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« on: May 06, 2004, 09:17 AM »

so bossy's back in town  Roll Eyes  which means i am subjected to general weirdness, retentivity and nitpicking. while his tone has changed, his oddness hasn't, but here was an interesting thing that came up [i'll make my musical point eventually]

i made an error with a document [stapled it instead of paper clipping, and he CAN'T STAND staples]. he started in with the 'i really hate that you're so inconsistent' stuff. Then he said, "The big thing you need to remember is that in business, any business -- predictability is more important than greatness. This isn't music. I need you to be predictable and consistent every day, and do things the same exact way, every day."

of course i wanted to smack him, but i really did think about the statement. firstly, it confirmed to me that corporate bigwigs are indeed stupid, and if predictability is the bigger plus, fine, they win.

but then i thought about his comment that 'this isn't music," and i started wondering if there was more of a parallel between music and business than he thinks.

i mean, if you're a session drummer, do you think people call on you coz you're great, or predictable? sure, chops matter, but usually session drummers aren't always called upon for the chops. its their consistency, reliability and well-roundedness that seems to get them the gig.

if you're a "great" [eg; talented, visionary, trend-setting; whatever great might encompass] drummer, might you be more unpredictable? might your non-predictability be what makes you great?

or maybe there are drummers out there who are greatly reliable, or great and reliable?


i dunno. but it's kind of an interesting equation. and more proof to me that i need to get a new day gig  Grin

what's your thought on his quote, and its applicability to music and musicians?



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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2004, 09:23 AM »

I think with "greatness" there is a level of predictability.

You know hiring Gadd will get you good solid consistant groove if you ask for it.  Thats predictability.   You know what youre going to get.  And hes great for it.  

Being unpredictable can make you a hazard.   Your at a gig, and mid song you totally change your riff from the written steady backbeat to a synchopated drum and bass link.   Your band falls apart.

Greatness involves knowing when to be predictable and when to branch out.
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2004, 09:26 AM »

Without delving into the philosophical aspect of this thread, I gotta say: your boss sounds like no picnic, but it also sounds like you could improve your own performance. He wants paper clips? Note that fact, and give him paper clips.  I think if you ever supervise anybody else, either as a boss or a bandleader, you'll start seeing more value in getting somebody to do the thing you asked them to do.

You can dismiss your job as "just a day gig," or you can try to really nail it. Really nailing stuff is good practice, in my opinion. When you get used to excelling in one task, it tends to spill into another.

My day gig relies on consitency and accuracy. I've supervised others and demanded the same of them, and been dissappointed when they didn't deliver.

In music or business, when you work for somebody else, your responsibility is to do what THEY want you to do. Presumably you can reconcile yourself to this, either by being compensated enough that you don't mind, or by aligning yourself with somebody whose views of what you should be doing are similar to your own. But when there's a boss/employee relationship, it's important to remember which one you are.

Sorry to sound like an old fart, just calling it as I see it, based on your history of posting on this topic.

I'm thinking of my response to the musical aspect of this question - just had to get this out first.
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2004, 09:33 AM »

if you're a "great" [eg; talented, visionary, trend-setting; whatever great might encompass] drummer, might you be more unpredictable? might your non-predictability be what makes you great?

Some of the best musicians I know are the most unpredictable, unreliable, scatty and disorganised people you could ever meet. Fortunately this all changes when they get behind their instrument when suddenly they turn into dependable, reliable rocks. Very strange how an instrument can totally transform a person like that ...
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2004, 09:49 AM »

In all but the most god-like, predictability is one of the most valuable currencies there is in any field. Do you stay at a boring hotel chain at short notice because they're great, or because you know exactly what you'll get? Do you put Brand X tyres on your car because they're great or because you know what you get?

As a boss (CTO of a software company), I am more comfortable with the mere mortal software developer who gets the job done, to quality, on time, than the superstar who can knock out technically marvellous code in a tenth of the time - but who won't comment it, or may miss a deadline because he forgets, or overcommits, or doesn't test it properly.

Predictability is a huge, huge, assset. It has nothing to do with being boring or mediocre. It means you can be trusted.

To get to the ponit where predictability is less important, you need to be a true superstar in whatever field so that what you deliver is more important than how you deliver it. And most of us mere mortals never get there.

I'm with your boss, I'm afraid - in spirit, if not in style.
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2004, 09:54 AM »

Without delving into the philosophical aspect of this thread, I gotta say: your boss sounds like no picnic, but it also sounds like you could improve your own performance. He wants paper clips? Note that fact, and give him paper clips.  ... when there's a boss/employee relationship, it's important to remember which one you are.

i know exactly what you're talking about, and believe me, i have tried mightily to raise my performance level to his expectations [spend my weekends reading Quicken and Excel manuals, have memorized all his securities account #s in case our files go up in smoke]. some areas i've succeeded, some still need improvement [but the staple thing was a fluke; he asked me to staple it and forgot!] he's a difficult person to please, and our work styles are very different. but i do respect the guy for his intelligence and unfliching committment to detail. i don't spend my days figuring out how to be insubordinate, but i do need to vent because somedays the nudging gets to be overwhelming and it really sucks being 39 and having someone talk to you like you're 10. i am fine with being a subordinate, i am just frustrated with working under what i believe is an archaic system of management. i don't believe in negative reinforcement. i think one needs to pick ones battles and not kvetch over every last thing, because a) you demotivate people and b) people become unable to prioritize what's really important. that's definitely been my experience.

but i'm well aware he pays my bills, and am grateful to have a job, etc. i've just never had such a difficult boss. the other folks he employs feel the same way.

the good news is i know i'll be able to work for anyone after this experience.  
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2004, 10:06 AM »

the good news is i know i'll be able to work for anyone after this experience.  

LOL - this is true!

There were a couple of artists I've backed up that were such a-holes that I now know I can handle working for ANYBODY if I had to.  Shocked

Now I just try to keep myself in a position where I don't have to work for weenies like that anymore. But it took years to get to that point.
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2004, 10:26 AM »

Got to agree with 563 and Mr A I'm afraid.
There's nothing worse than having to constantly correct things because people don't do what you ask them to.
This applies to music too.
I'm sometimes a 'boss' in musical endeavours.
There is a place for improv and a place for playing it exactly 'as written'.
The musicians who don't get anywhere are generally the ones who can't play the same thing twice.
As Mr A. says, there's a certain satisfaction in doing a job well (however menial). Believe me, I've done some repetative and menial jobs just playing drums on tour with a band.
Like Mr A, I've had my share of nightmare bosses (usually the lead singer). There is no labour law in the 'band' environment and I've been psychologically abused on more than one occassion.
Incidentally I have a well known drummer friend who says he has a problem with LSD............
Lead Singers Disease.
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2004, 10:36 AM »

I think great predictability is what we all want.

Playing a great groove that doesn't mess up the rest of the musicians, is a goal we should all strive for, especially if it's a session (or performance) where the song's already written and that's what they want.
If you are creating a new song and experimenting on the drum part to find the right sound/groove than unpredictability is what you should want, provided the drummer is good.

When I did a brief stint at a receptionist type job I found I couldn't be consistent enough for my boss. I think I looked at all the options, like maybe "well a staple would be better here because the way these papers will be handled a paper clip won't keep them together", versus "papers to boss must paperclip."

On another part of your story; Don't you hate when someone knows something about you and starts using what they think they know about this knowledge and  blame it for whatever you don't do "right"?
"Well, you musicians aren't predictable so that is why you didn't do it the way I want it done. When you are playing a song you have to be fairly predicitable (getting tired of typing that word) for the other musicians to play with you.
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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2004, 11:07 AM »

On another part of your story; Don't you hate when someone knows something about you and starts using what they think they know about this knowledge and  blame it for whatever you don't do "right"?
"Well, you musicians aren't predictable so that is why you didn't do it the way I want it done. When you are playing a song you have to be fairly predicitable (getting tired of typing that word) for the other musicians to play with you.

yeah, which is why i never told him i played. his old assistant was the one who spilled the beans.

and just to clarify, the point i was trying to make (however roundabout) was that the same laws that apply to business apply to music. i think the assumption that musicians can't be predictable and reliable is a false one, and that predictability and consistency is paramount in music [especially drumming]. i think my boss's preconception that music is just about fun and blowing your wad is erroneous. i may not be methodical at every last thing on the job, but i am still pretty systematic, whether at work or behind the tubs. generally speaking, there's a method to my madness.
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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2004, 11:12 AM »

generally speaking, there's a method to my madness.

This should be the mantra of every musician!
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mfran
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« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2004, 11:43 AM »

Predictability is better than greatness.

I wonder where bossy got that stupid phrase? I mean, yes, it is worth pondering, but I don't see how being predictable should preclude greatness.  In other words, Steve Gadd is predictably great every time he plays.  An office worker could be reliable, predictable, and great.  One attribute does not negate the other, so I wonder why he put them in the same analogy?

If he had said "Predictability is the most important thing" that would make sense.

Tell your boss that he is predictably ridiculous.  And get him a staple remover.
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« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2004, 01:23 PM »

Predictability is better than greatness.

I wonder where bossy got that stupid phrase?

The same place where all those other hideous, insufferable corporate catch phrases come from - the ones that "sound really authoritative, but really don't mean crap in the final analysis" ones.  The "I need something to say to keep the peons in their place" phrases.

God, I hate middle management.  The Peter Principle as a business model.  My wife used to work at a company FILLED with people like that - thank God (and I don't say that lightly) that she got out of there when she did.

(Yes, I have some issues...I know not all corporate offices are like that...but many are.)

To come up with a smart-ass comment like that over the difference between paper clips and staples...this guy has issues and insecurities, if he thinks this warrants such a comment.  

If you'll excuse me, I have to go get out my copy of "Office Space..."  I think tonight will be a good night to watch that flick again.  Maybe I'll watch some Terry Gilliam instead - always good for my soul...
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« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2004, 10:56 PM »

"Predictability is More Important than Greatness"

Ah, you've got to love blanket statements like this. Yes, this does fit many situations, both corporate & musical, but innovation rarely comes from predictability.

Think of all the boy bands and their clones, or the host of faceless grunge-pop bands that when heard on the radio could be anybody. Predictable yes, interesting no.  

In many musical situations you are called upon to play a part and need to be predictable. Afterall, nobody wants a drummer wigging out on some improv solo during Beethoven's 5th while playing with the symphony. That just wouldn't do. But there are pleny of places within defined music structures where you could be a bit unpredictable and it would be applauded. John Coltrane & Jimi Hendrix were unpredictable and managed to achieve greatness. It's a rare commodity in these blatantly corporate days, but can still happen.

As for work, if the boss can't stand staples, I'd throw out the stapler. Simple enough. And the next time you're in the middle of some smokin' jam with your band, remember that you have your drums and he doesn't. All he has is his paper clips. Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2004, 02:56 AM »

As for work, if the boss can't stand staples, I'd throw out the stapler. Simple enough. And the next time you're in the middle of some smokin' jam with your band, remember that you have your drums and he doesn't. All he has is his paper clips. Smiley

If you kept the stapler instead of throwing it out you'd have the drums and the stapler ...
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jameswalker
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2004, 08:07 AM »

If you kept the stapler instead of throwing it out you'd have the drums and the stapler ...

Or you could be a nice guy and give the stapler to Milton:


"D-mn, it feels good to be a gangsta..."
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« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2004, 10:40 AM »

i think my boss's preconception that music is just about fun and blowing your wad is erroneous.

A lot of people see the finished product of when you play. Worse yet, they assume that playing an instrument is easy. They see professionals do it on TV or in a video and think to themselves, '...how tough could it be?" They see people playing music and having fun without seeing all of the work, commitment and consistency that goes in to it. Then, they think they can use it as an illustration to make their point. In reality, they're using it as a point to illustrate how little they perceive about the world around them.

I'm responsible for 15 people turning out a monthly publication. The problem with publishing is that your mistakes are written down and sent out to (in our case) thousands of people who then get to observe what you did wrong. No one person makes a mistake, we're all responsible for covering each other azz around here. When we succeed, we are all successful. When we don't, we're all in the meeting trying to figure out how to make sure we don't make that mistake again.

I've worked for your boss--no not literally, but I've worked for morons who manage by fear. You're in a position where you need to learn from him. Learn how you don't like to be managed. Learn what he does right and how he does it. As much as you don't respect or like him, try to figure him out a little bit and take plenty of notes. You'll be in a positon someday where this will be important information that you will need to use.

Now I get to go do my boss-man thing and meet with one of my people who is quitting to take a management job someplace else.
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« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2004, 11:58 AM »

The same place where all those other hideous, insufferable corporate catch phrases come from - the ones that "sound really authoritative, but really don't mean crap in the final analysis" ones... God, I hate middle management...Yes, I have some issues...I know not all corporate offices are like that...but many are...

Don't apologize for having issues, because you are totally right!  

I have now worked in 6 corporate jobs, or small-owner companies where a select few are raking in the cash despite gross and blatant incompetence.  Some of the jobs outright lied to everyone involved until they sank like the dot-com bastards that they are---meanwhile good people lost all their savings when the stock went from $48 per share to less than the price of a small fries.  And what was the balm to soothe those who lost so much stock investment money?  Well, fired of course, because the board said profits were down, and "resources" had to be cut.  People are no longer humans, they are now resources to these money grubbing companies!  Personnel is now called Human Resources.  What a world.

And for all of my oft-acknowledged musical ability, I have remained for nearly two decades trapped in inside sales (shoot me now!) and the companies ALL are exactly like the Dilbert comic strip, to the point where we would sometimes cut out the cartoon, and change the names to our bosses' names!   Grin

I am flabbergasted that corporate America still exists... they succeed somehow despite their worst efforts...trust me when I tell you NOTHING gets done at work anymore, not by bosses, and often not by their underlings.  It made me get to the point where if the owners arent doing anything, why should I?!  I wrote this at work if it is any consolation   Cool

You are right about the catch-phrase to fill up space and sound authoritative.

My favorite phrases to hate are:

We need to take a level-check on this.

Let's brainstorm!

James will be spear-heading this meeting.

That is a whole NOTHER thing...

We will be forming a committee to decide...

That's thinking outside the box, Smoggy, great job!

You are still in your comfort-level, and need to jump out of it.

We all need to shift our paradigm to get results.

If I were half the man I was 5 years ago, I'd take a FLAMETHOWER to this place!


(that last one is my favorite Al Pacino line, just thought I'd throw it in to keep us all awake at work!)

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« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2004, 12:31 PM »

We started an espresso drinking game at big all company meetings.  

Hearing the following gets you one sip:

"leverage"
"free cash flow"
"day 1"
"Six Sigma" (or any of its constituent parts like "black belt")

"re-org" gets you two.

And anyone who gets up to speak and is wearing khakis and a blue check oxford shirt gets you two.

We get buzzed pretty fast.   We might have to switch to Bingo.
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« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2004, 12:43 PM »

We started an espresso drinking game at big all company meetings.  

 Grin   That's hilarious...


Mfran, you must seek help. I'm afraid you'll soon be found on a tower somewhere, naked with a rifle. Wink

But seriously, I despise the corporate lingo of today. Besides the "resources" example that mfran gave, another that makes my skin crawl (and is similar to "thinking outside the box") is "color outside the lines"...

Uhh....

I'm sick to my stomach now...
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