Hey thanks Dave! I did have to go back and be a slave to the grind today but I think I'll be able to make an early, yet stealthy exit. 

He's a member here.  Nice guy. 

Where the hell is the forefinger webbing?

Hey Matt, good to see you back on the DC.

Well, it's amazing how obsessed I am with "finding" a traditional grip that works for me.  For the past month or so, I've been experimenting with what I call "third finger fulcrum" in the left hand traditional grip.  What happens here, is the index finger is pretty much out of the picture (not completely, but for the most part).  Or said a different way, the index finger and third finger sort of switch their roles----the middle finger now becomes the "guide"/has the most contact with the stick.  And now, the thumb plays a more direct role in the actual stroke.  The thumb itself can practically rest on the stick, too, and it is able to actually play/make the stroke itself------very similar to young WFD Matt's approach in his traditional grip technique (as seen/interpreted in his video per earlier in this thread).  This is as opposed to the index finger approach, which seems to employ a more "locked" position for the thumb, or at least doesn't utilize the thumb as a MAJOR component of the stroke itself (still major, just not AS major).

Anyway, the real reason why I'm working with this particular grip, is because I find it gives me more power AND control.  It wouldn't seem like it, but it does.  By control, I mean that I am able to maintain a better grip, and thus, am able to stay more relaxed (as opposed to always being tense from trying to keep the stick from flying around when using the "traditional" trad grip).  But for some reason, this weird grip just seems to utilize those particular muscles in my hand, wrist and forearm that allow for maximum power and stability (I'm guessing the larger muscles).  I guess it feels like I've got more "behind" the stick now.  This grip is also not too far off from the right hand matched grip concept of third finger fulcrum. 

So, I showed this grip to Okstel recently, and he didn't like it but he said the obvious---if it works for you, then use it.  The one thing about it I ldo like a lot, is that it really makes moving around the kit easier, with trad grip.  I'm talking about strictly all of the different up and down and side to side movements we do when we go from drum to drum, to cymbal, from cymbal to drum, from drum to cymbal, etc., etc., etc.  And it's pretty much just this thumb and third finger combo thing.....

Any of you guys ever experimented with this type of trad grip or seen it/heard of it being used before?  Okstel mentioned that he's seen old video footage of a few of the old jazz drummers from the 40s and 50s using a similar grip (the one I remember is the great Frank Butler----anyone remember him?  Underrated as hell.).  Plus, I actually do remember reading not too long ago in MD about Stanton Moore experimenting with "third finger fulcrum" for the left hand trad grip.  I wonder if this is similar to what he's discovered.  Interesting.....  I'm such an obsessed trad grip drum GEEK!!  lol   

Just putting this out there, regarding the techniques that Buddy used:

Watch this video of Buddy's amazing 1970 solo and read along with my post. (You may want to download it and open it up in QuickTime so you have a timer):
http://drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich1970.html

About 15 seconds into the video, Buddy does his famous "one-handed roll" (a.k.a. the "push-pull"), which is a simultaneous use of both the thumb and finger technique.

At about 3:10, as he speeds up his hands, you can clearly see him move his fulcrum back towards his thumb, allowing him to maintain power and speed at the same time.

By 3:15, he's using almost all wrist motion.

Finally, at about 3:32 as he begins to quiet down while maintaining speed, he shifts his fulcrum towards his fingers.

As for the rest of the video, well, God works in mysterious ways

In regards to traditional grip experimenting, there's a good article on just using the thumb and nothing else.  It has a different feel, and I believe can allow for greater speed.  In fact that last 2 winners of the WFD use this technique.

http://www.drumskillz.com/cont_view.php?cont_id=160

Unfortunately, the line between doing something incorrectly and doing something unique and unorthodox can be pretty shady.  There are some teachers that believe their students to play exactly how they were taught and no differently.  Others, allow their students a little more space only correcting technique if it seems to be hindering them in some way.  I am of the latter group.  I think that true artists always push the boundries by experimenting and coming up with new and interesting things.  I believe that new and possibly better techniques could be hindered if everyone were told they were doing it "wrong" just because their instructor was unfamiliar with it.

I've quit trying to build my speed lately and actually I'm feeling slower than ever.  I might get back into it around the holidays, but I never get fast fast.  I find I get to around 800 without blowing a gasket and get a good warm up along the way.  It is good for technique.  I'm not much on technique all the time though even though mine isn't that bad.   I also like to polish it up once a year or so.

I find much more enjoyment playing groove based independence excercises with a strong emphasis in reading and counting.  It just seems to be a much more worthwhile endeavor *for me at this time*.  I understand why some people whom play in more extreme types of situations would go for extreme speeds.

Why is everything so "extreme" now anyways?  Monster trucks, motorcycles doing backflips and drummers playing 1300 strokes in a single minute.

Do we have to nearly kill ourselves to be defined as a human being anymore?  Why does everything have to be so much bigger than real life?  I don't want to lock myself in a practice room for 10 hours a day.  Such selfish pursuits and to what end?

  It's the American way. Bigger is better. Not.

robyn