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« Reply #100 on: August 05, 2004, 09:05 AM » |
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I just found an interview with Steve Kilby (who I mentioned earlier actually) at Hybrid Magazine which I thought had some relevant conversation on the topic. The highlights:
I can see why people don't believe you can find a song and it would be old, and you'd go "Oh, I wonder what they're doing now" -- because most would go on, if it was that long ago -- "If he is even doing anything anymore, I bet it's kind of old and tired." And that would be what you would expect. And I think that the only gimmick I really have now is to be one of the few guys, and there are some others, but to be one of the very few guys who actually is getting better as he gets older, as you would expect someone to do at any given profession. I think I probably said this in another interview but if I was a doctor or an architect, I would expect at fifty I would be right at the peak of my powers. And I don't see any reason as a musician, or a songwriter, or a lyricist, or a singer that that shouldn't apply in the same way.
And only the real guys -- the Dylans, and the Cohens, and the Neil Youngs, and hopefully I can move into this as I get older...it would be the genuine article. The people who are doing it for the love of what they do, and because they felt they had something to give, not because they were like -- I don't know, the Psychedelic Furs, or f****** Howard Jones, and Culture Club, sort of trotting around endlessly doing a show of their moment in the sun.
A funny thing seems to happen in rock n' roll with people -- they run out of ideas.
(this one was actually the interviewer) I think that is where a lot of people do get in trouble with rock music, as far as performers go; being the Rolling Stones and trotting around acting like you're still twenty-five when you're past that, yeah. (back to Kilby)
It's unnatural when you're sixty not to be sixty, but sixty doesn't have to be entertainment, and it doesn't have to be some washed-out, bloated old parody. I can't see why -- and as I say, Dylan or Neil Young, you don't see those guys -- they still f****** got their bite, if they want to have it, and they've still got their edge, and I don't see why you couldn't have it at ninety. I don't see why it has to be a thing that can only be connected with youth. I mean, actors can be good when they're old.
When you see a guy at fifty come on like you see Dylan or Neil -- I mean, they're way past that now. Nick Cave, he's a little bit younger than me -- he's pushing fifty, though -- and when he sings his songs it isn't ridiculous because they can come from a twenty-year old man, or they can come from a fifty-year old man, do you know what I mean? And Leonard Cohen, and...There's a few, I guess. I think John Lennon maybe could have been one as well, you know, sort of resisting the bulls*** of it all. Kind of staying where you always were: independent, and not believing the imbeciles around you, telling you to do this and do that.
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Making bad art. Saying stupid things. Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here. The Luna MothmeTableland |
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Scott(Sjm1112)
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« Reply #101 on: August 05, 2004, 09:58 AM » |
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First off, the TV show on Fox was an abomination, and didn't reflect his "chops" at all - they cut him out of the creative process, and at the end of the season, he was hoping that the show would get cancelled.
IMHO, in his more recent standup work, his ability to draw connections between ideas, his ability to observe and define his concepts, and his skill with the English language, all has become razor sharp, and he has really elevated his craft. (I also happen to think he's funnier than hell, and just as funny - if not more so - as he was earlier in his career, but like so much in this thread, that's subjective.)
It was like a baseball player who, after years of solid success, added another five miles onto his fastball, and everything he threw was "on the corners."
Not to undo your work with the crowbar....I agree completely about GC. |
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A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. "Hear that?" you say. "That's dynamite, baby."
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #102 on: August 05, 2004, 11:11 AM » |
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I just found an interview with Steve Kilby
Honestly trying to keep personal opinions out of it......... I play music with some people heavily influenced by the whole Dylan, Young genre. They all seem to think both artists have thrown away a lot of their credibility over the last few years. Poor choice of projects and poor choice of material seems to be the perception. To my mind they fit exactly into the questionable category of my title. Are they still 'cutting it'? To give of my own opinion a tad. I think a lot of Lennon's cutting edge credentials have stayed intact due to the untimely nature of his death. Some of his later material was just as soft and squidgy as anything by McCartney, but you never hear people mention it.  |
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LT500man
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« Reply #103 on: August 06, 2004, 02:34 PM » |
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I just think by and large 'The Grammy's' are a bad example to argue the case for artistic innovation or vitality. 1) Most award systems are more like popularity polls (RE Modern Drummer poll- do you think guys like Travis Barker are THE best drummers in the world?), 2) the industry has long since recognised the award system as a major boost to sales and therefore tried to corrupt the process (ala The Oscars) and 3) there are the odd awards that are a bit more cutting edge than The Grammy Awards (if you want to argue that awards signify creative success) like The Mercury Awards in the UK.....although this looks pretty corrupted by industry meddling, as it seems the major labels are taking it in turns for one of their artists to win the prize each year.
This is exactly the way I see it. In all award shows. It is just a big popularity contest. Often times the they will be saying things like "Its about time name of your choice won this after being elected so many times before". Awards really don'r mean that the person recieving it had the best "song", "Album", "Movie", etc. it just means that the "Big wigs" decided it was "Thier turn to win" JMHO.......... |
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"Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
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Vintage Ludwig
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« Reply #104 on: August 06, 2004, 11:24 PM » |
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Years of nonstop excesses-i.e. booze, drugs,TOURING,booze, drugs,Touring,GIRLS,marriage, divorce,booze drugs,touring,touring,booze, drugs, Oh yeah-bickering and disention among bandmates-OH no, someone just commited suicide and they say its cuz they heard it in our material to kill themselves....etc.......
thats one way.
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Chip71
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« Reply #105 on: August 07, 2004, 06:13 AM » |
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At 56 I still have the same urge to play more than ever. I have found a problem finding younger bands to play with. There is a real "age discrimination" in this trade that is unfair to seasoned musicians. I don't have a problem playing with 25 year old musicians. Just with their attitude of age. Until a major lawsuit brings that to light it will continue in the industry. It's sad.....Through the years I've developed a better ear and control that I didn't have at 30. Still, I'll never quit....I'll just keep looking for the right break. Suicide? Na....I don't have the time.  |
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"When you quit learning you start dieing"-My Grandfather
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PaulDperc
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« Reply #106 on: August 09, 2004, 04:46 AM » |
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At 56 I still have the same urge to play more than ever. I hear yah! |
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Commander
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« Reply #107 on: August 19, 2004, 04:07 PM » |
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It has been my experience that many established artists believe their own press and surround themselves with'yes men' who lack the courage to question their choice of material for fear of losing their jobs.
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #108 on: August 19, 2004, 04:11 PM » |
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It has been my experience that many established artists believe their own press and surround themselves with'yes men' who lack the courage to question their choice of material for fear of losing their jobs.
That is one of the truest things I have ever read on this forum. |
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bongo
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« Reply #109 on: August 19, 2004, 09:30 PM » |
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It has been my experience that many established artists believe their own press and surround themselves with'yes men' who lack the courage to question their choice of material for fear of losing their jobs.
I have been reflecting on your post Commander for several hours now, and am troubled by your dark perspective. Who is to fault a young player for approaching his famous employer's latest music with positive enthusiasm? Who is to say the music is not worthy? No doubt mediocrity happens all too frequently, but who can blame the drummer caught in the middle? I would do my best in spite of my doubts, and keep my mouth shut. If you say that compromises artistic integrity, well so be it. I'll save artistic integrity for after I have a reputation to compromise. If you say that makes me a 'yes man', well I reject that... my job as a side man would be to give 'em what they want. What constitutes 'good' music is totally subjective anyway. The artist's tune might be destined for historic greatness, and only he had the vision to see. Staying upbeat and supportive of the project just makes good sense. Heavy negativism on the other hand could lead to the bitter experience of getting fired from a high profile gig. Anyway Commander, I'm not putting down your post, you make a valid point (backed up by Mr. A. ) on how aging artists lose their edge. I feel though there is more to it than your short statement.  |
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CC Drums
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« Reply #110 on: August 19, 2004, 11:12 PM » |
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At 56 I still have the same urge to play more than ever. I have found a problem finding younger bands to play with. There is a real "age discrimination" in this trade that is unfair to seasoned musicians. I don't have a problem playing with 25 year old musicians. Just with their attitude of age. Until a major lawsuit brings that to light it will continue in the industry. It's sad.....Through the years I've developed a better ear and control that I didn't have at 30. Still, I'll never quit....I'll just keep looking for the right break. Suicide? Na....I don't have the time. It is unfair but I'm learning to deal with it. I'm finding myself (just turned 40) "aging" out of opportunities to audition for bands where I really enjoy the music. Depending on the type of music, it's the visual side of the biz. I'm seeing more & more age requirements for bands seeking musicians. Some of the reasons are, "we need to relate to someone our age" and "we had an older person in the band and we just couldn't connect with him". I'm in a situation now where I'm the oldest (which is a first). Sometimes I find it difficult relating to my bandmates because of our age difference (between 5 & 10 years). It's an 80's band and some of these guys were still in grammar school when I graduated in 82. dc |
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Commander
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« Reply #111 on: August 20, 2004, 07:03 AM » |
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No doubt mediocrity happens all too frequently, but who can blame the drummer caught in the middle? I would do my best in spite of my doubts, and keep my mouth shut. If you say that compromises artistic integrity, well so be it. I'll save artistic integrity for after I have a reputation to compromise. If you say that makes me a 'yes man', well I reject that... my job as a side man would be to give 'em what they want If you have been hired by a well known artist then presumably he/she respects your opinion enough for you to voice any concerns regarding the choice of material. As a session player this can be difficult and often ill advised, but if hired as a band member then I feel it is your duty! But I was referring more to the record company execs and general Arty Fufkin type hangers on that seem to accumulate like Pilot Fish around a Shark. I personally know of one artist in particular who would bait the 'yes men' by coming up with more and more outlandish statements, just to see how long they would keep agreeing with him! |
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #112 on: August 20, 2004, 07:09 AM » |
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I think the yes-men tangent that Commander and I have commented on has more to do with an artist's success than their age. I've dealt with 20-somethings who thought the world revolved around them, and who surrounded themselves with just enough people to sustain the illusion.  |
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Commander
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« Reply #113 on: August 20, 2004, 07:21 AM » |
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I think the yes-men tangent that Commander and I have commented on has more to do with an artist's success than their age. Exactly, but an artist that has had success for many years can be a lot worse! |
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« Reply #114 on: August 20, 2004, 09:42 AM » |
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I just heard a track off an album called "Global A Go-Go" by a 49 year old Joe Strummer (and The Mescaleros). It was definite proof that the aging rocker still has some magic in him.
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Making bad art. Saying stupid things. Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here. The Luna MothmeTableland |
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #115 on: August 20, 2004, 11:23 AM » |
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I just heard a track off an album called "Global A Go-Go" by a 49 year old Joe Strummer (and The Mescaleros). It was definite proof that the aging rocker still has some magic in him.
HAD some magic unfortunately. Joe died a while ago. May he rest in peace, but I thought his recent material seriously paled in comparison to The Clash. I have to agree with Mr A and The Commander. I think it's a well known phenom amongst seasoned freelance players. Unfortunately we see it all too often. One thing I will agree with is the notion Bongo expressed - who can really say what is a good piece of music and what isn't? Unfortunately, the lazy or fading artist will exploit that grey area and use it against anyone brave enough to place their head above the parapet. I could go into specifics about artists I've worked with if you want (to back up Mr A and The C.), right now I'm kind of busy watching The Olympics. |
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bongo
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« Reply #116 on: August 20, 2004, 08:55 PM » |
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But I was referring more to the record company execs and general Arty Fufkin type hangers on that seem to accumulate like Pilot Fish around a Shark.
I personally know of one artist in particular who would bait the 'yes men' by coming up with more and more outlandish statements, just to see how long they would keep agreeing with him!
That's too funny ... sounds like that dude had it together. I think the yes-men tangent that Commander and I have commented on has more to do with an artist's success than their age. I've dealt with 20-somethings who thought the world revolved around them, and who surrounded themselves with just enough people to sustain the illusion. Huh, maybe it's a good thing I've never been so close to a famous artist to experience this, I don't know how I'd handle it, I can't stand that kind of pretention. I'd try to stay cool and keep my mouth shut, and smile all the way to the bank. |
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drumwild
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« Reply #117 on: August 20, 2004, 09:30 PM » |
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I'm still trying to figure out what "cutting edge credentials" means.
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #118 on: August 21, 2004, 01:46 AM » |
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I'm still trying to figure out what "cutting edge credentials" means.
I think most people can hear a difference between Steve Earle and Garth Brooks, or between Peter Gabriel and Lionel Ritchie. Some artists are crowd pleasers, stacking up the platinum discs and grammy awards. Others are following their own vision and it is often they who move popular music forward as an artistic medium. When the two approaches come together, as in The Beatles, you can see history in the making. |
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Commander
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« Reply #119 on: August 21, 2004, 01:04 PM » |
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When the two approaches come together, as in The Beatles, you can see history in the making.
I'd hate to hear Peter Gabriel and Lionel Ritchie coming together ...  |
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