Topic: DW collector or SONOR Designer?

[groovin]

But yet it seem's thet the majority of folks here prefer Sonor!

[groovin]

Is it that once you get big and can afford them ,they become more appealing(D.W. that is)

[Mister Acrolite]

I'd only play Sonor if you gave them to me. While they look and sound nice, I think they are outrageously overpriced.

[felix]

LOL... you have a great sense of humor Keith.  I'm sure all the sonor players are going to line up and start giving away their kits LOL.

In my pricing travels I've found the Delite series comparable to DW sometimes less if they are being "blown" out.  I could have gotten a Delite 5 pc for 1700 new with tom mounts*blow out* The 3000's and old phonics are anywhere from 1-2 K.  Buy yeah the really  hot / custom sizes and veneers are expensive.  I agree.

I priced out a 8pc designer kit last year (and the drumshop, rep screwed up the order *DW is their bread and butter* for 5500 before tax.  That was a mighty kit that included some hardware (not all of it) if I remember correctly.  I've seen comparable DW kits that cost as much or more (but what they actually sell for can be smoke and mirrors)- I'd say they are close.  But sonor pricing will probably be going up with the Euro skyrocketing.

I don't know man... whatever- the guy who asked the question is probably long gone and here we are a week later still discussing it.  You try to find the best deal on the nicest kit that trips all your triggers- that usually how it works for me.

I don't think the sonor (Hohner) service is much worse than DW either.  Hell, it even takes ludwig 3 months to get lousy heads ordered sometimes.  If you have a good dealer (like Julian Rouse at Drum & Stage) they will get you your parts.  

Now Thomas Lang and Billy Ward prolly get their parts alot faster than I would- but for me, the music industry, even with Yamaha parts, could take awhile for a weirdo part.  And that was even when I was in the industry.

[Showtime]

Overpriced? That depends on who's check book its coming out of.

 Its impossible to define price to someone who wants something and the heart is involved. Is it an investment or an expenditure? Some guys can't sleep at night because that 5k kit is available and they must have it! I understand that as well.

When I bought my sonor kit everybody said it was too much money. I most definately disagree.

How much would it of cost me NOT to have spent the money? Income, great gigs etc. I have accomplished my goals as a drummer in part because of my sound. I know this for a fact. A national gig I got was because the bands soundman was doing the mixing at a local club in his down time. The Guitar player of the National band stopped by after my bands sound check and the soundman said to him"you have to hear this kit". The soundman had me play alone for a while so they could listen. They remembered me when they needed a new drummer and I got the call. That gig led to many other tours and so forth.

Of course I could have accomplished this with any other kit but I didn't . I accomplished it with the kit everybody said I was paying too much money for. That being said, It would have been worth it to spend 10 times what the kit "cost" me.

I am sorry for going on about it but It is impossible to pay too much for something you really want.

[Mister Acrolite]

I am sorry for going on about it but It is impossible to pay too much for something you really want.

I disagree. But I just don't get as caught up in the "pride of ownership" thing, I guess. And I've also spent many years being poor. So the idea of spending 10K on a kit that sounds no better than one I could get for 2K makes no sense to me, and never will.

My rationale is simple. If I see one drumset for $5,000, and another for $10,000, I'd only buy the 10K kit if it sounded twice as good as the 5K kit. Otherwise, even if I liked the 10K kit, I wouldn't be happy, because I'd feel I had paid too much.

I have heard Black Beauties, Craviottos, Radio Kings, and old Turkish cymbals that cost way more than "average" gear, but which sounded way better. But I draw the line when the increase in price is disproportionate to the increase in quality. The price of old K Zildjians has gone through the roof recently, to heights that I'd never pay. But from the ones I've played, I'd say Craviottos are not unreasonable - they really DO sound better.

But I've not seen that proportional increase in sound quality in Sonors. They sound great, but so do mid-level Pearls and Yamahas, for a fraction of the cost.

If owning a Sonor brings you the level of joy you describe, good for you. Go for it.

Me, I'll stick to trying to get the most bang for the buck. And so far I've been able to do so quite satisfactorily at a lower price point than Sonor offers.

I know what it's like to dream about specific gear. But there's always been a pragmatic part of me that puts limits on those dreams. I'd never spend the money required to buy a set of Sonors, or a new Mercedes for that matter. Because I simply do not place that much value on the intangible aspect of these products that causes their prices to be so high. To you, it's worth it. To me, it would be a collosal waste of money. I'll stick to mid-priced gear selectively chosen, and drive it around in my Honda.  

[sirdrumalot]

They're quality drums.  And popular.  Their customer service is very good.  And they're innovative.  <==  this is not to say the same isn't true of many other companies, but DW has consistently done all these thing for a long time.

     I do think their quality has gone down. I've been playing on a "vintage" DW for awhile and I absolutely love it, and after playing on some new collectors series and trying to tune them up, and hearing all the feed back about inconcistency. I'm not sure I would really want to buy a DW. For what it's worth, after playing on a fair amount of high end sets, I was suprised how the DW's compared. Not very well I'll admit, and for the money they're charging now I think it's ridiculous. I would be willing to spend 5,000 dollars on a kit if, first I could afford it. And Equipped with the right heads it sounded phenomenal.  The second most important factor to me is if the kit stays in tune, and if it really was worth the money. I will admit though, DW's hardware is the best I've ever used and ever will use. Of course, this whole thing is just my opinion, I'm not saying I'm right. These are just observations.  

[Tamadrumer88]

Hi, this is actually my first post but thought it might be worth chipping in.

Welcome to the Cafe

[ProudArmenian]

If it was anrrowed down to a DW Collector or a Sonor. I'd probably get the DW.

[Chris Whitten]

But I've not seen that proportional increase in sound quality in Sonors. They sound great, but so do mid-level Pearls and Yamahas, for a fraction of the cost.

As usual I agree 100%.
I too have attained my goals, but you'd have to twist my arm a long way behind my back before I'd attribute some success to any one drum kit.
It's vital to have a good sound and to be happy with your gear, but there are many drummer more successful than me, doing more gigs than me, on equipment I personally don't rate.
The only time owning a really premium kit is pretty important is when recording. Even then, the people you are working with don't care what it is....as long as it sounds good.
A lot of well known studio drummers still record with their 60's/70's Ludwig or Gretsch kits, even if they endorse another brand.

The Guitar player of the National band stopped by after my bands sound check and the soundman said to him"you have to hear this kit".

Strange
Why didn't the national act just by their drummer a Sonor kit?
Perhaps it was the way you were playing the kit that impressed them? Rhetorical question.  
Don't get me wrong, I think Sonor and DW make nice drums, but so do many other companies and there are many drummers (other than Abe Laboriel - DW and Steve Smith - Sonor) who are doing good work on Yamaha, Tama and Pearl gear.
BTW, on the subject of DW's visibility. For the last 25 years they've had a very aggressive endorser program. Also, they offer unusual and nice finishes (which is important to some endorsers) and have a friendly vibe about the company.
I've endorsed the hardware in the past and found them to be personable, accomodating and very easy to deal with.

[felix]

But I've not seen that proportional increase in sound quality in Sonors. They sound great, but so do mid-level Pearls and Yamahas, for a fraction of the cost.

The mid level sonors are the same price if not less than Pearl and Yamaha.  I don't know if they sound better or not- definitely different.  I know for a fact my birch sonors walked all over my Japanese made birch Pearls.  My sonors were 300 bucks more.  

Looks like used Pearl Masters Kits are around 1500 for the birch to 2500 for the Mahogany Selects now on ebay.  Just looking and not doing a big pricing study- I'd say they are about 25% less than a comparable sonor kit (retail price) A full blown masters will retail out at about 8000 and a Designer around 10500.  They are definitely less, although not much if you ask me.  

Now yeah if you compare an export to a designer, that's a fraction.  Does a designer sound 5000 bucks better than an export?  Hell, depends who you ask probably.  I used to put together and play masters kits every day in the mid 90's.  Now I share a drum seat with a guy that indeed has a maple Pearl Masters kit... let's just say my 1000 dollar Force kit more than holds it's own- and that ain't me talking.  Sonor just makes a darn good drum- always have.  If you like their sound and feel then you will pay the extra dough.  What sonor does is get you hooked on that sound with their mid grade kits then they hit you up for the big dough later on.

[Dave Heim]

    I do think their quality has gone down.

I haven't noticed it yet, personally.  But I wondered if their quality might eventually suffer when they launched Pacific.  It often seems that the little corners that get cut for a less-expensive line eventually show up in the top line models.

[DRWM]

I would and do play DW.  I have a TAYE kit too, but that's for another post.  Play what makes you happy.  

I also have a 1961 Sonor that never leaves my house.  I'd be more afraid to regularly gig with my vintage gear than my DWs, because of availability of replacement parts.

Another thing I think about is, anyone can buy Keller shells, slap a finish and hardware on them and call themselves a custom drum company.  I've done it myself on numerous occasions, I just don't sell them for thousands of dollars.

[felix]

Well kids, guess what was at the drumshop today???  Wrong.  he he.  What they did have was a brand spanking new Sonor Delite kit that some guy ordered.  Brand new in boxes, just arrived.  So we pulled the 10" tom out of the box and went straight over to the DW 10" tom.

Anyone care to finish the story?  It has a happy ending.  Basically you can take your shoes off and go swimming in the sonor's tone compared to the DW.  What got me was that it even had the stocker heads on it.  Whuuped that DW like a red headed step child.  I don't know how they do it.

[Showtime]

Gald to hear it Felix.

[sirdrumalot]

I haven't noticed it yet, personally.  But I wondered if their quality might eventually suffer when they launched Pacific.  It often seems that the little corners that get cut for a less-expensive line eventually show up in the top line models.

I really do love the DW I'm playing on now, and the last DW I heard had pinstripes .... so. That probably turned me away from them a little, and besides. That's probably a big statement for me to make, I probably haven't had enough experience with their new kits to know.  

[Filacteria]

I have a Sonor S-Class maple kit.  The 4-piece fusion shell set cost me 1.5K.  when tuned properly, it sounds just like the top-dollar Designer sets you can hear in Meshuggah or Tool recordings.

I'm currently lusting after the Tama Starclassic sound.  I'm holding my dollar until I can find the loose drums on ebay.  I'm sure I won't overstep the 1.5k mark once again.

My view on DW: great drum when tuned properly.  However, I'm pretty sure you can tweak a similar sound out of any other halfway decent maple, thin-shelled set.  YMMV - IMHO - JMTC, etc, etc, etc...

[Chris Whitten]

This is one drum kit I'd buy ahead of a DW Collector or Sonor Designer:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38097&item=3773697958&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[felix]

Those are pretty nice, no snare for that price either.  Kinda not in the same league as a DW or Delite *better*.  As far as comparing it to a Designer; either kit would be tremendous.  Brady's remind me of the Sonor Signature sound from what I've heard- not as good though   LOL

[Showtime]

No doubt about it