Aches and Pains that can be developed!!!

[Mark Counts]

About 3 weeks ago I was working on some one handed rolls with my Right hand and Since then I have a pain in my Right shoulder.  I am still playing, as I did last night but things that bare weight in front of me like picking my daughter up and handing anything that has any weight to someone in front of
me bothers it.  I have lowered my Toms and cymbals about one and a half in.  So they are easier to get too.  I have been taking Alieve and warming up better when I play.  I have been told that if it was a torn rotator cuff I couldn't lift my arm over my head and I can.  Maybe it is just the fact that I am almost 45 and this is what we have to look forward to. Maybe I just pulled a small muscle.  I don't know.  Guess I need to see a doctor but I thought maybe some of you have experience the same thing?
                                   Nutty

[nudrum]

I guess you irritated something in your shoulder doing the one handed roll exercises.
I don't think you could tear your Rotator Cuff doing that but you could rub a tendon the wrong way. It is possible you irritated a previous injury so we can't rule out a torn Rotator Cuff.
The RC is muscle and tendons. One test for a certain kind of rotator cuff injury is to hold your arm out in front of you and turn it as if pouring  out a cup of water. If that hurts you may have irritated (inflamed) your supraspinatus muscle. That is the most commonly injured rotator cuff muscle.
I would give it a rest, don't do anything that irritates it ( Don't immobilize it, just don't do movements and lifting that hurts it)., ice it, and try an antiinflamatory medicine, Give it a few days and see if it improves i.e.  doesn't hurt and you can move it well.
If there is little or no improvement I would see a doctor.

[Mark Counts]

Thank you nudrum, you sound like you have had some medical training?  The test that you asked me to do feels ok but if I was holding some weight it might  bother me. Thank you for the advice.
                      Nutty

[nudrum]

Thank you nudrum, you sound like you have had some medical training?  The test that you asked me to do feels ok but if I was holding some weight it might  bother me. Thank you for the advice.
                      Nutty

I was an occupational therapist in a former life.

[Mark Counts]

I was in Radiography in a former Life.  I will listen to any suggestions that anyone has about this shoulder problem and If someone else want to discuss any other discomforts that is OK too. I am sure their are more than just mine. Thanks again nudrum.  

[smoggrocks]

i developed a bone spur i-don't-know-what around my rotator cuff from hitting my cymbals repeatedly and too hard, during some intense practice sessions. doc said it was like my bone was 'hanging downward, like a stalactite.' apparently, it was also due to how my shoulders are shaped [genetics] and positioned. apparently, this is a common injury when one is doing repeated over-the-head type movements with the arm [eg; throwing a baseball, hitting cymbals, etc.] i couldn't lift my arm up much past waist level and was in real pain. that wincing kind of pain that gives you a chill.

i got 10 weeks of physical therapy [basically, weight lifting and resistance exercises], took anti-inflammatories, and had to lay off playing for about 6 weeks. i've felt fine ever since and have kept up some of the weight/resistance exercises so it doesn't happen again.

it doesn't sound like you're that severe, but you'd be wise to lay off playing for a while and take the aleve [make sure you are a good candidate for it first]. probably makes sense to get a diagnosis, too.

if you're not in agony, i'd say just chill for a little while, put heat packs, followed by ice packs, and see how you feel in 2 or so weeks.

good luck!

[Mark Counts]

Wow,It sounded like your pain was way wost than mine. That sounded real bad.  Thank you for your advice and I will use it.

[diddle]

I had a similar problem in the past which I thought was nerve damage.  The pain was associated with my wrist, arm, and shoulder.  The doc encouraged me to see a specialist, which I never did.  After a few weeks, I discovered my problem was caused by excessive caffine (drinking too much coffee & soda pop).  I eliminated all caffine from my diet for a couple weeks and the problem went away.  That may not be your problem at all.  I'd go see a doc!

[Mark Counts]

Well Diddle,
I am a one cup a day coffee drinker and maybe a soda pop a week. How in the world did you find out it was caffine? Thanks
                   Nutty

[Chip Donaho]

You're using muscles that haven't been worked in a while. I'm 58, and after a 4 hour gig my arm droops when tired. I've crashed on my shoulder motorcycle racing, and the stress from playing irritates the old injury.... So the next day I sit around and drink coffee, relax my arm, and go do it again. Welcome to the world of middle aged people.... I am still middle aged, right?   :P   Playing drums is physical, might as well get used to some pain. But if it doesn't go away after a couple days off you may want to check it out. But I'm willing to bet the doc says quit playing and take Advil for a while. I've been down that road and it was a wasted trip.... But then, I'm always aching from something. The curse of a workaholic.   ::)

[Mark Counts]

Thanks Chip,
And Yes you are still middle aged.  I am kind of trying to look at it the way you are but truthfully if I do all these things that everyone is talking about and I am still having problems in about 3 more weeks, I am going to seek professional help. My shoulder may be able to be fixed but there is no cure for my Nuttyness.
                         Thanks again!!!

[Chip Donaho]

It helped when I lowered my cymbals down a bit and changed my angles on them. Not a total cure, but it did help....  ;)

[Mark Counts]

Chip, I already did that and they are down as far as they can go.  I dropped them an inch and a half.  I've never played my drums too far out of reach.   Thanks for the advise.

[nudrum]

i developed a bone spur i-don't-know-what around my rotator cuff from hitting my cymbals repeatedly and too hard, during some intense practice sessions. doc said it was like my bone was 'hanging downward, like a stalactite.' apparently, it was also due to how my shoulders are shaped [genetics] and positioned. apparently, this is a common injury when one is doing repeated over-the-head type movements with the arm [eg; throwing a baseball, hitting cymbals, etc.] i couldn't lift my arm up much past waist level and was in real pain. that wincing kind of pain that gives you a chill.

i got 10 weeks of physical therapy [basically, weight lifting and resistance exercises], took anti-inflammatories, and had to lay off playing for about 6 weeks. i've felt fine ever since and have kept up some of the weight/resistance exercises so it doesn't happen again.

That's that old supraspinatus muscle I mentioned earlier. It sends a tendon along the top of the shoulder blade that can rub against the bone  that sits above it. Sometimes this will actually tear the tendon.

Sounds like you came close Smoggy!

Lifting your arms over your head will increase the likelihood of this wearing away of the tendon.
I don't do any weightlifting that puts my arms in this position. I also do rotator cuff exercises regularly.
Age is a major factor in developing this condition.

I wouldn't ignore this pain! you don't want to tear a tendon!

[Mark Counts]

Hey nudrum,
Can you discribe these excersizes?  I feel somewhat better today.  I have been taking 4 Aleve's a day and resting it
a bit. I have to play Saturday.  So I am taking it easy this
week.  Going to do the Hot and Cold today.  Thanks again!

[nudrum]

Hey nudrum,
Can you discribe these excersizes?  I feel somewhat better today.  I have been taking 4 Aleve's a day and resting it
a bit. I have to play Saturday.  So I am taking it easy this
week.  Going to do the Hot and Cold today.  Thanks again!

I was going to avoid that because demonstrating the exercises is the best way to tell you how to do them.

But I will try....

The main 2 I do involve rotating the arm at the shoulder in a specific position.

If you have a pulley machine (or elastic band) that allows you to put the handle level with your hand when it is at your side with the elbow bent 90 degrees then this will be easier.

1. Stand with arms at your side with elbow of the arm to be worked bent to 90 in front of you, sort of like shaking hands. If you are working your right side have the pulley on your right, at 90 degrees so that the weight will be pulled across your body. Grip handle of pulley with light weight (5 or 10 pounds max) attached, or elastic band and pull the handle towards your body keeping your elbow pinned to your side. Your hand will make an arc towards the other side of your body. This will work the right muscles.

2. Follow same directions above but have the handle on the other side of your body and start with your arm already at the end of the arc (described above) and pull the weight back out to 90 degrees.

It is important to keep the elbow at your side doing these exercises because if you don't you won't work the right muscles.

Do 15 or 20 reps a few times a day.

You shouldn't exercise if the shoulder is sore because that will cause more damage to the joint.

[smoggrocks]

That's that old supraspinatus muscle I mentioned earlier. It sends a tendon along the top of the shoulder blade that can rub against the bone  that sits above it.

Age is a major factor in developing this condition.

aw, c'mon man -- 40 is the new 30 and all that! >:(

;D

you know -- i think that shoulder injury was the most painful injury of my life, next to bunions. the biggest drag is you can never find a comfortable sleeping position so you never get good rest.

nutty -- the two most effective exercises they had me do were:

1) "arm bicycling" -- this is done with a bicycle pedal-like contraption. you put your arms in the pedals and 'ride' away. it was a timed exercise and you had to do it as quickly as possible. i really hated this exercise, mostly coz i sucked at it. but also coz i felt like a gerbil in one of those habi-trails.

2) resistance band -- this one uses one of those exercise bands [with a tension appropriate to your strength and needs; not too thin, not too thick]. you secure it to a door, face forward, then take your arm across your torso and pull the band toward your shoulder, elbow at about 10 o'clock at the end of the movement. no wobbling in the back or arm as you pull the band. this exercise is great, and feels good, though it hurt a lot at first. you have to do it slowly and repeat at least 12 times per side, 3 sets.

other good one is: holding a light weight so the ends of the barbell are facing north and south, so to speak, and keeping your elbow tight to your waistline, slowly move the weight out to 3 o'clock, then in toward your torso, to 9 o'clock. don't adjust the height of the weight; keep it close to your trunk area. this one also feels good, and can be done with resistance bands in lieu of weights.


while they may be contraindicated for this injury, i still like doing two overhead lifts, since i'm no longer in pain:

the first is done seated [ideally, in a gym chair with a backrest that's slightly angled] using a mid-weight barbell [for me, that's about 10 lbs. per arm; 15 on a good day -- you can probably do much more]. hold the barbells at your shoulders, fingers facing away from you [rounded end of barbell should point toward your ears] and raise barbell toward the ceiling, then return to base. [it's like doing a military press w/o the machine.] i loooove this exercise, as it feels like it opens my whole chest and makes my arms and shoulders feel great. i do this exercise very slowly, about 3 sets of 15 reps.

an alternate to this is called 'the arnold curl' or something like that [schwarzeneggar developed it, so they say]. it's the same as above, but you rotate the barbell as you go up, and reverse-rotate it on the way down. i wouldn't do this with a shoulder injury though, as there's lots of rotation.

i also like doing over-the-head tricep curls. i know a lot of people don't recommend this, but it feels great on my arms and back.

i really learned a lot in those physical therapy sessions. using exercise physiology principles definitely helps you recover more quickly and without too much pain!

oh, and nutty -- 4 aleve sounds like too much, but i may be wrong...

[Mark Counts]

Wow, The two of you are great help.  I do have the elastic bands that you all are referring to.  I used them to rehab my knee surgury. Smogg, I hate to tell you this but my doctor told me that my knee was full of athritis when he cut part of the medial meniscus out.  He said this was due to all the physical activity that I did when I was younger.  Diving, Gymnastics,Football and Baseball.  He said it is normal for someone my age. My knees now only hurt when it is going to rain. I am better than the weather man.  I will try some of these as long as I don't feel discomfort.  I don't want to fire it up again!  Thanks you two!!
                    Nutty

[smoggrocks]

i'm glad we could be of assistance.

just want to clarify this:

2) resistance band -- this one uses one of those exercise bands [with a tension appropriate to your strength and needs; not too thin, not too thick]. you secure it to a door, face forward, then take your arm across your torso and pull the band toward your shoulder, elbow at about 10 o'clock at the end of the movement...

when i said face forward, i meant face 90 degrees away from the door -- don't face the door itself. also, your elbow should be straight at the beginning of the movement, when you reach over your torso, and bent when you get to the end of the movement, when you've stretched the band as far as you can.

you can also do the same exercise raising your arm on the diagonal, so your fist, not elbow, winds up at 10 o'clock at the end of the movement.

good luck, happy healing, and don't talk to me about arthritis! all my aunts have it and i'm doing what i can to not. ewwwwwwwwwwwwww!!

[Mark Counts]

Thanks Smogg,
Checked out your band clip. Cool Pic. Thanks for sharing your
experience with me!
                               Nutty