"Hosanna"--what would you do with this song?

[Robyn]

We will be playing this song Sunday, and I'm not sure what to do with it. It sounds to me like the 16th hh is overdubbed on another rhythm. I like the 16th notes, but I'm afraid that I'd have trouble carrying them at a good steady rhythm thruout the song w/o screwing it up, at the point where I am ability-wise. And it seems to me that the quarters on the kick are the driving force behind the drum part.

So could you give this a listen and make suggestions? Thanks. When you get to the  http://www.leadworship.com/resources/songbook.html]link , click on"listen and play" for Hosanna in the "special song downloads" in the box.

robyn

http://www.leadworship.com/resources/songbook.html

[Mister Acrolite]

You're smart for looking for an easy groove to play. Something that's hard to play is often hard to listen to.

Try this:

Right hand: 8th notes on the hihat, with accents (if you can) on all the "ands"

Left hand: Snare on 2 and 4, and move over to the hihat on the "ah" of 2 and 4 and the "e" of 1 and 3. It's a beat you probably already know how to play if you were keeping your left hand on the snare. But by moving it to the hihat you help imply a 16th note hihat feel, but it should still be a relaxed and easy pattern to play.

Later when the song builds, move the right hand to the ride. If you can, try to cop that off-beat pattern where the drummer plays the bell of the ride on all the "ands."

An alternate way to play the beat I described is to keep your left hand on the hihat all the time, and catch the 2 and 4 on the snare with your right. Try both, and use whichever variation feels the most relaxed.

Hope this helps!

[Bart Elliott]

If you have guitars playing, they will be playing the sixteenth-notes in their strumming. I would just simply the groove ... sticking with eighth-notes for your ride pattern (HiHat or Ride cymbal).

In the recording ... the sixteenth-notes you hear are coming from guitars and a LOOP.

Keep it simple, make it groove, play what feels good. Even straight quarter-notes on the HiHat and Ride would work if you needed to.

You can also imply the sixteenth-note feel by adding some every now and then on the HiHat or Snare.

P.S. I've worked with Paul Baloche before. Used to live down the road from him in Lindale, TX ... and attended a small church where he was leading worship. Great guy; great musician.

[Mister Acrolite]

Keep it simple, make it groove, play what feels good.

Bingo!

[Dave Heim]

I agree with the 4-on-the-floor bass drum.  The song needs it.  The 16ths on the hats would help drive it along, but you could get away with 8th notes on the hats, with a strong backbeat on the snare.  Its got that nice little off-beat on the ride cymbal bell thing going in the guitar solo right before the breakdown.  The snare drum starts building back out of the breakdown - that's nice to leave in.

Sounds like a fun song to play - good luck with it.  Curious to see what others will say.

[amoacristo]

I like all of these suggestions. I would suggest for the intro playing just hi-hats, whether you want to play 8ths or broken 16ths or if you feel comfortable playing straight 16ths without playing anything else. Half-way through verse 1 start playing the bass drum on 2 and 4, like on the song. At that point I would definitely suggest 8ths on the hats. At the end of verse 1 play all the quarters on the bass drum. Then add snare on 2 and 4 through the chorus. The accents that have been mentioned would sound great, but if you aren't comfortable with them then it will sound good without them as well. One very important thing that I always focus on is dynamics. Of course, that will only work when the rest of your team does the same.

I went to Paul Baloche's church for a service once last year. It was interesting. It was a small church in the country. The building wasn't overly nice, but they sure had great sound and video. I wonder how that happened.  ;)

[Robyn]

Here's what I came up with just puttering w/ it this am:  quarters on both kick and hihat (foot), 8ths on hihat w/ the stick, 2&4 on snare, lots of 4e&a tom fills in appropriate places. It seemed to carry the 16th pattern pretty well, and was plenty easy for me to play. I can play the 16th hihat at the beginning and towards the end easily enough--just didn't think I could carry it thru the whole song.
Problem w/ the guitar is that there's only one playing this week, acoustic rhythm guitar. Then a bit of keyboards,sax, and bass, and that's us for the week. :o  It actually sounded pretty good at practice last night w/ me playing 16ths on the hh the whole way thru, so it really needs that pattern.

Thanks for all the great suggestions! I'm going to go back thru and digest them a bit, play around w/ some things and figure out what works the best.

robyn

[diddle]

Hi Robyn,

This is a favorite song at my church!  Since we've done this so many times I've had the opportunity to experiment with different approaches.  Paul Baloche's band has a lot happening on the CD version of this song... but don't worry about trying to get it exactly like that... A simple 1/8 note rock groove works great.  Below are the notes I use for this song.

I like the two suspended cymbol creshendos at the into... but I find it easier to bring it in with the vocal and peak the creshendo at "eyes are turning to You" (1st one) and "hearts are yearning for You".  Then bring in bass on 2 & 4 at "cuz when we see You we find strength..." ... and move to a 4_on_the_floor bass pattern at "all our fears are washed away" ...

by the way, the word "Hosanna" was used in Greek & Hebrew as a cry of addoration to God.  Hope you guys enjoy playing this cool Praise_&_Worship song.

[eardrum]

Paul Baloche's band has a lot happening on the CD version of this song... but don't worry about trying to get it exactly like that... A simple 1/8 note rock groove works great.  Below are the notes I use for this song.

Ditto to Diddle
Trying to get it to sound just like the CD is a waste of time in my experience.  Of course you want the congregation to be able to recognize it but the solid groove from bass and snare are the most important parts.  We like to try and make these songs our own instead of reproducing the CD version...  I can't add anything else to what's been said except that I know you'll enjoy playing this.  I'm not sure what it is but rhythm guitar driven, 4 on the floor songs are not what I have in my CD player and iPOD.  HOWEVER, when I play these songs and the band is clicking and the congregation is really into it, it's a lot of fun. Enjoy...

[Bart Elliott]

I've played on a lot of P&W albums over the years, and much of the song repretoire is first run (never recorded before), and in a live event situation. I'm always amazed to hear drummers at other churches spending a great deal of time trying to copy exactly what I played on the record ... because that is what is on the CD. Sometimes it's not them but rather the music minister or worship leader wanting/desiring/insisting that they learn the part as it is on the CD. What they don't seem to realize is that all of my parts, whether drums or percussion, were "in the moment" and off-the-cuff. There's stuff I played that I would have done differently had I been able to go in a fix it.

My point with this is that you should just use the recording as a guide ... and just do your own thing. I'm suggesting that you change the style, although you can certainly do that as long as the worship leader is keen to the idea, but rather make the drum/percussion parts be what YOU want to say in the song. That's what God wants anyway ... what you have to say about Him through your music, voice, instrument.

The studio recorded P&W tunes tend to be over-produced (thank you record labels), but that's the climate right now. Things are starting to change (slowly) and the music recordings are beginning to get back to their roots, sounding more organic and less sterile. Unless you plan to use loops and lots of processing, you'll never be able to make it sound "just like the record".

I played at one of the largest churches in the DFW area, and they always liked it to sound "just like the CD". I had fun working with loops, samplers, sequences, etc., and didn't mind the challenge. But if it every got to be too much work, I would just blow it off and nicely tell them it's not going to happen. It's worship ... not a show. Give your best and do your best. Make the music feel good and help the worshipers to get to a place where they can express themselves to their Maker. If you do that ... you've done your job, and done it well.

[Matt Self (Gaddabout)]

If you have guitars playing, they will be playing the sixteenth-notes in their strumming.

Not only is this a salient point, it's a potential obstacle when the acoustic guitar is hot in the mix (like most churches I've played in). If you try to play sixteenths to that, you're almost destined to end up fighting the acoustic guitarist for time.

I'm lucky enough to play in a church with a percussionist. I would instruct him to play a sixteenth-note shaker pattern and stick to quarters/eighths on the hi-hats. That background hat pattern sounds more like a shaker part anyway. If there's someone else on your stage who knows how to play a shaker (backup singer?), that might solve your problem.

The studio recorded P&W tunes tend to be over-produced

Amen to that. Wonder how your buddy Tom feels about the direction of it all that he helped create.

[Robyn]

My point with this is that you should just use the recording as a guide ... and just do your own thing. I'm suggesting that you change the style, although you can certainly do that as long as the worship leader is keen to the idea, but rather make the drum/percussion parts be what YOU want to say in the song. That's what God wants anyway ... what you have to say about Him through your music, voice, instrument.


It's worship ... not a show. Give your best and do your best. Make the music feel good and help the worshipers to get to a place where they can express themselves to their Maker. If you do that ... you've done your job, and done it well.

Thank you!! I really needed to hear this again--I've been told it before, but being extremely anal, I want to get everything as close as I can. I'm still working on letting go and letting it happen.

But thanks everyone for the suggestions--good stuff that I can use and incorporate for this song.  :) And it is great fun to play!

robyn

[amoacristo]

I like this thread. We do a lot of David Crowder songs at my church. The David Crowder Band uses a lot of loops, but we don't. That means the songs won't be exact but we aren't trying to be exact. We are not the David Crowder Band. If we wanted it to be exact, then we should just play their cd. The challenge can be to figure out through the loops and the drums what to play.

The biggest thing I do is to copy the feel of the song. I don't try to copy every single fill or anything like that. I do try to copy dynamics and the overall feel of the song. I wouldn't want to take a song like Hosanna with straight quarter bass drum driving and play a songo instead. Sometimes we take songs and make them completely different. The nice thing is we can do that, because we aren't a cover band. We can do what we want, what will work best for us, and what will work best for our congregation. That is the most important thing.

[Matt Self (Gaddabout)]

I started playing drums in church in 1989, nearly all of them Vineyard songs. Rarely did we change the arrangements, and rarely did I change the drum parts.

Then I played a couple of worship festivals and special performances with the original songwriters and they seemed fairly adamant the parts changed on many of their songs. A studio performance almost always got changed, and a live performance ... go for the feel, but definitely bring your own tools to the table.

[Steve Phelps (Shoeless)]

Hosanna? Wasn't that the song with the shuffle Jeff Porcaro was famous for? :P

[diddle]

No, that was Rosanna. ;)

[Louis Russell]

and what will work best for our congregation. That is the most important thing.

Amen brother!

[Bart Elliott]

I like this thread. We do a lot of David Crowder songs at my church. The David Crowder Band uses a lot of loops, but we don't. That means the songs won't be exact but we aren't trying to be exact. We are not the David Crowder Band. If we wanted it to be exact, then we should just play their cd. The challenge can be to figure out through the loops and the drums what to play.

Speaking of the David Crowder Band ... they are in Waco, TX this very moment recording their next album ... in a converted barn. True.

[amoacristo]

Speaking of the David Crowder Band ... they are in Waco, TX this very moment recording their next album ... in a converted barn. True.

A barn just seems to fit them. They are nuts, but I do like them.

[Bart Elliott]

A barn just seems to fit them. They are nuts, but I do like them.

It is a converted barn, from what I understand, but yes ... it fits.