Topic: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount  (Read 12900 times)

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Offline metalshredder

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Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« on: April 17, 2008, 06:24 PM »
So I decided that $220 or whatever they cost, $150 for the Kelly Shu and $220 or so for the May mount...that it was WAAAAAY too much for something like that.

Then I saw the Mike Portnoy Mirage kit on Tama's site, and he had something different.  A light bulb went off in my mind, 'I can make that' I said!

So I did.  Check it out below, cost me nothing, used tools and materials that I had laying around.  2 cuts, one bend and drill 3 holes.  Done.  Sound easy?  Yeah, it was.  Worth 200 bucks?  I didn't think so either. 

Works like a champ though!

Oh, and uses existing hardware, cord goes up thru the tom mount, no modification to the drum at all!  I'm not meaning to brag, just excited!



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diddle

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 07:15 PM »
looks good !

Offline Bart Elliott

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 08:04 PM »
looks good !

Except you need to replace your Kick drumhead and get yourself a Kick Pad.  ;)

Nice work; way to use your creativity!

I've done something like that in the past, but now the only Kick drum I own that has a Tom mount on it is my Yamaha Recording Custom kit.

Offline metalshredder

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 08:38 PM »
Except you need to replace your Kick drumhead and get yourself a Kick Pad.  ;)

Yeah, I know...it's on the list.  I got that head for $15 used from a guy at work...I just haven't been able to justify (to the wife) a new one.  It'll be getting an SKII sooner or later!
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Offline Donald Mcnany (boomerweps)

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2008, 04:51 PM »
I just used a two way universal drum hardware clamp and clamped that to the tom arm post for a similar setup. Then I made a shorter version like yours that was held by the spur screws ;>)

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Paicey

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2008, 03:12 PM »
Well ya O'l devil, nice job!. Put the DW front head with the small holes around it on and youll be ready to sound like a million bucks. Ingenious.

Offline dmhdrums

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2008, 07:35 PM »
...just glanced at the picture again... what kind of snare drum is that???
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Offline metalshredder

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2008, 08:02 PM »
Pearl Free Floating Brass.  14x6.5".

I can't seem to get enough of it!  Very Crisp, has that real nice crack and sweet tone, IMO.
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Offline dmhdrums

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2008, 07:33 PM »
So after a while of thinking about doing this and then trying to convince a friend to do it for me... I actually redesigned it and built it.
I didn't have any scrap metal sheets around, and I don't have any tools to work with metal. After some designing and...[ugh!] math, I designed a mount out of 3/4" angle aluminum. I used a podium mic mount that I already had, and a few nuts and bolts. If I figure the cost of everything, including the mic mount, it comes to a grand total of about $8. Worth 220? Nope. I think this loooks cooler than the MAY mounts anyway!
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Offline metalshredder

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2008, 07:41 AM »
That should work, man!  Looks like it took a little more work, but as long as it serves the purpose, cost virtually nothing, and you did it yourself, you are to be applauded!

One thing though, I see you've got lots of nuts & bolts, make sure its all got Loc-Tite on it, so you can be sure it won't ever come apart.  We all know how nuts & bolts do in high vibration environments.

But at any rate, Cool!
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Offline dmhdrums

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2008, 07:02 PM »
One thing though, I see you've got lots of nuts & bolts, make sure its all got Loc-Tite on it, so you can be sure it won't ever come apart.  We all know how nuts & bolts do in high vibration environments.

I thought of that right as I finished mounting it. So once I recover from this 8+ hours of rehearsal a day for a week, I'll take it out and get some lock-tite put on there.
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Offline Jim R.

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2008, 09:52 AM »
Very Creative. I like it. I just wonder about the metal connecting to the shell and what kind of vibration and sounds you might get on the mike, especially with recording.
That's what I like about the Kelly Shu version is the suspension of the mike that I would think would absorb any vibrations and such.
But, above all, props to you for being inventive and saving some money. We will wait for your next invention now.
So much to do, so little mind.

Offline Bart Elliott

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2008, 10:16 AM »
Very creative.

One thing I don't like about any internal mic mounting system is that it limits the ability to position the microphone exactly where I want it.

My suggestion ... when positioning your Kick drum mic, don't point the diaphragm of the mic directly at the drumhead. You typically never want to point the Kick mic so that it's perpendicular to the Kick drum batter head. You want to place the mic slightly "off axis". By this I mean that the mic should not be pointed directly at the beater and should be tilted to the side (as much as 45 degrees). This will eliminate potential air popping from the wind rush past the diaphragm of the mic, keep you from overdriving the diaphragm, plus put you right in the meat & potatoes of the cardiod pattern on the D112.

For more "click" and "punch" in your sound, put the mic several inches from the batter head. To catch more of the "body" of the drum, pull the mic back so that it is (at least) in the middle of the drum shell or further.

Offline Louis Russell

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2008, 12:53 PM »
One thing I don't like about any internal mic mounting system is that it limits the ability to position the microphone exactly where I want it.

I mounted an additional tom holder on my old Gretsch kit.  I used the top section of a mic stand with a suspension mic mount (to limit noise) inside the drum and it worked great.  I was able to position the mic by reaching through the port in the front head.  Like Bart, I found the best sound was obtained by pointing the mic at the edge of the head which would be approximately 45 degrees to the head. 
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Offline dmhdrums

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2008, 05:41 PM »
Some added clarification to Jim, Bart, and Louis.

I failed to mention that the mic that I'm using is on a suspended clip. Also, there was already a metal plate on the inside of the shell to brace the tom mount. And as for my next invention, I'm working on a giant suspension mount made out of bungee for a projector at my church. Not very interesting for us drummers though...

I'll try the angled approach and see how that works out.
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Offline eardrum

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2008, 02:28 PM »
Very creative.

One thing I don't like about any internal mic mounting system is that it limits the ability to position the microphone exactly where I want it.

My suggestion ... when positioning your Kick drum mic, don't point the diaphragm of the mic directly at the drumhead. You typically never want to point the Kick mic so that it's perpendicular to the Kick drum batter head. You want to place the mic slightly "off axis". By this I mean that the mic should not be pointed directly at the beater and should be tilted to the side (as much as 45 degrees). This will eliminate potential air popping from the wind rush past the diaphragm of the mic, keep you from overdriving the diaphragm, plus put you right in the meat & potatoes of the cardiod pattern on the D112.

For more "click" and "punch" in your sound, put the mic several inches from the batter head. To catch more of the "body" of the drum, pull the mic back so that it is (at least) in the middle of the drum shell or further.


Just wondering about the motivation to do this.  Do you guys feel that mounting the mic inside and that close to the batter head is a big improvement over setting on a mic inside a reso side port (maybe you don't port).  Are you trying to pick up more smack/attack from the strike?  Don't you loose some of the fullness from the shell?

Offline Bart Elliott

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2008, 03:59 PM »
Just wondering about the motivation to do this.  Do you guys feel that mounting the mic inside and that close to the batter head is a big improvement over setting on a mic inside a reso side port (maybe you don't port).  Are you trying to pick up more smack/attack from the strike?  Don't you loose some of the fullness from the shell?

I'm not "motivated" to put the mic inside the Kick drum ... although I do this from time to time. My first choice for mic placement is always based on the sound I want to capture. Sometimes I have to sacrifice my "first choice" and go with something that works best for the venue, sound system, or musical situation.

I prefer the sound of the Kick drum (any drum for that matter) being micked outside. The reason? The sound that we normally hear is the sound of the drum being projected to our ears acoustically. Why capture the side from inside the instrument when that is not the sound I would hear acoustically.

With that said ... there are good reasons to mic the drum from inside. Here are a few, in no particular order:

1) Isolation; less bleed from surrounding instruments. More control for processing, etc.
2) In the case of the Kick drum, being able to get more attack (I.e. "click") from the instrument; capturing the attack of the beater striking the drumhead.
3) More signal; increased SPL hitting the diaphragm of the mic.
4) Convenience.
5) Some styles of music gravitate towards the sound of the mic in the Kick drum, especially those styles with rapid-fire Kick drum patterns and lots of low-end already in the mix. You need the attack of the Kick drum to cut through.

I've been in situations (see my past thread) where the Kick drum is micked inside, outside, and has a Sub-Kick ... all three on one drum.

Sometimes when the Kick drum is micked outside (e.g. at the port), the entire drum is covered with a packing blanket (or the like) to isolate the mic from surrounding sounds. This is sometimes done even if the mic is inside the drum. It's up to the engineer; live or studio.

The mic and mic placement make a HUGE difference in the captured sound. You can have the greatest Kick drum in the world, and with a lame mic and bad mic placement, it has the potential of sounding very bad.

Offline metalshredder

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2008, 08:06 AM »
Just wondering about the motivation to do this.  Do you guys feel that mounting the mic inside and that close to the batter head is a big improvement over setting on a mic inside a reso side port (maybe you don't port).  Are you trying to pick up more smack/attack from the strike?  Don't you loose some of the fullness from the shell?

My reasoning kind of re-iterates what Bart just said.  When I place the mic, I go by the sound I want to hear, and where the given mic wants to be to get that sound.  I like my kick sound to be fairly clicky, and I haven't had any problem at all getting the low end to be there as well.  Anyway, when I got my D112, it even says in the instructions to place the mic a few inches from the inside of the batter head!! 

So, of course I tried it with my little stand, set the mic right inside the sound hole like I'd done before...it got way too much BOOM and nearly no click, so I started moving the thing inward till it sounded good.  Which of course, was as far in as my stand would go, and it was rubbing and hitting things, at which time a friend recommended an internal mount, said how much he loved it.  His main selling point was partially convenience, but mostly consistency.  He kept telling me that the sound would be exactly the same every time I played.  So I looked into it, made one, and my cord now runs right up the tom mount tube.
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Offline dmhdrums

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2008, 08:20 PM »
Just wondering about the motivation to do this.  Do you guys feel that mounting the mic inside and that close to the batter head is a big improvement over setting on a mic inside a reso side port (maybe you don't port).  Are you trying to pick up more smack/attack from the strike?  Don't you loose some of the fullness from the shell?

As for my personal reasons for doing this:
a. My bandleader and I like and want the click sound
b. I play a lot of very different venues from small churches to auditoriums to huge outdoor ampitheaters
c. I got tired of having to carry my entire mic case and cables and a mic stand
d. Right after I decided this I played at a very large auditorium and had to use a wireless handheld mic laying on the pillow inside the drum [sounded horrible btw]
e. Said mic stand took up too much space on smaller stages
f. Said mic stand would fall over occasionally
g. I just didn't like the look of said mic stand
h. My bass drum sound is now exactly the same everywhere I play now- I personally EQ it everywhere to ensure this
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Offline Chip Donaho

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2008, 07:38 AM »
My DW set has the mic built into the bass drum. My other 3 sets I'll use a Shure bass mic and vary the setup by what's needed for the gig. Unless it's a terrible sound system my bass always sounds good. I have my own mixer that sounds great with good mics. That will go to the main board. I only eat up one channel and the guy running the main PA loves it. He gets my drum sound set and he's in business.  :)
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Offline metalshredder

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2008, 01:48 PM »
Bart,

In response to your positioning and angle suggestion, I have rotated my mic.  Tell me if from these pics, if this is what you had in mind.

The 3rd pic is probably the best.  It was just hard to show without removing the reso head.



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Offline Bart Elliott

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2008, 02:01 PM »
Yes, what I see in the third picture was what I was talking about doing.

With this position the diaphragm of the mic is not parallel to the drumhead and air-flow when the drum is struck. This will reduce unwanted noise from air "popping" the mic. Secondly, with this mic position, you are taking advantage of the mic's cardiod pattern.

In the end, be sure to use your ears and not your eyes. It's easy to get a method down, doing just because you've seen it done before or it's worked in the past, and forget that it's all about the sound. Moving the mic an inch in any direction can make a HUGE difference! What I've suggested is just a starting place for you to then begin making minor adjustments as needed ... per your tuning, drumhead choice, venue/room and desired sound.

Offline metalshredder

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2008, 02:09 PM »
Sure.  I'll be sound checking it later, the baby is sleeping right now.  I just hadn't gotten around to doing it until today though.  I'll let ya know how it goes.
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Offline dmhdrums

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2008, 09:12 PM »
Bart,
I tried this new-fangled mic placement and it worked like a dream. I was getting great kick sounds before but now it's just incredible!
I've played a couple gigs since I installed this and the first was a big band gig playing in a large auditorium, but I didn't use it.
The next was my praise band playing at a small youth center where I DID get to use it. The sound was great. It would have been amazing if the sound system were better though....
Thanks for the tip!
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Offline metalshredder

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2008, 07:10 PM »
I wanna say that it helped for me too.  Not overpowering the mic anymore either.  Although i went and screwed up the EQ like a knucklehead...

Oh well....more tweaking to come...
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Offline TheBeachBoy

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2008, 02:00 PM »
I have my Beta 52 set up inside my bass drum.  I took a regular short straight mic stand, took it off the base, then attached it on the inside using the extra tom mount (those big ugly Pearl tom mounts came in handy on this one).  I then de-soldered one end of the mic cable, ran it through the vent, the re-soldered it back together.  The reason I like this setup is:

1.  I use a non-ported reso-would have too much bleed from other instruments if I set a mic in front of the reso.
2.  Don't have to have a mic stand in front that a guitarist can kick over ("but I thought it was a 'kick' mic" ;) )
3.  Convenience-don't have to set up one more thing every time I need it mic'ed
4.  Consistent sound, for the most part.
5.  Amaze sound guys-this is more than just to show off.  Sound guys tend to listen to me and my ideas and don't get into a power trip about being the sound guy if they know that I know a thing or two about live sound (have run live sound myself for musicals and plays, as well as bands)

I have the mic set up inside to where it gets a good sound (better than most local sound guys with a mic outside).  I can change the tuning of my bass to change the overall sound if it needs it, since I can't move the mic without pulling one of the heads off, so there is somewhat of a downside, but the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in my situation.  Now if I was playing bigger venues with larger acts and needed the best sound possible, I'd do it differently.

BTW, metalshredder, that's a sweet, simple, and sturdy idea to make the mount out of diamond plate (the three S's).  I might have to make something similar if I ever find a need to use my other tom mount.

Offline metalshredder

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2008, 10:17 PM »
Thanks, Beachboy!

I think you'll agree with a few quotes:

Don't make it more difficult than it has to be-

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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Offline dizz

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2008, 10:14 PM »
Unfortunately the pics on this post are gone so I cant really see what he built.  I too mount my D112E on the inside of the bass drum. 

I Mount all my toms off stands and so I have free tom mount on the starclassic bassdrum.  I added a 13" piece of appropriate diameter tubing that clamps inside the tom mount with nothing showing on the outside of the drum except the cord coming out of the mount at 12 O'clock.  I clamp the kick mic clip to the chrome tube on the inside.

I agree with Beachboy on all accounts especially if you are gigging constantly.  Studio is a different story.  Kick mic stands suck in real life situations hehe.  If you're not on your own drum riser, its gonna be in the way

I would like to add that in my opinion, mounting a kick mic off a rig that is attached to that very drum adds Hz that you feel more than hear.  Im thinking you are moving the diaphram with sound and through a real, solid medium too.
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Offline metalshredder

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Re: Custom Internal Kick Mic Mount
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2009, 11:23 AM »
Unfortunately the pics on this post are gone so I cant really see what he built.  I too mount my D112E on the inside of the bass drum. 

Sorry about that.  I'll put those pics back up, maybe today.  I was messing around with my web host, and put something in the wrong place, then couldn't find it, and wound up deleting everything...
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