Topic: my stave drum experiment  (Read 20647 times)

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Offline dizz

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my stave drum experiment
« on: April 24, 2010, 08:34 AM »
Hello DCites

After seeing Bob Dias' stave drum project I'd been intrigued and inspired to try it myself.  I thought I'd experiment on a plank of oak I had lying in my shop.  The wood used to  be a bed frame rail.

First, I know I have the grain going in the wrong direction (horiz vs verti) but the grain kind of looks cool this way.  I hope however I don't run into problems down the road.

I figured I'd test out the process and the prototype could be turned into a pot planter or something since it would come out crappy right? haha  ;D

Well, it's actually coming out better than I thought it would.  Granted it's not done yet and I have many obstacles to overcome still to get this drum into a state of playability -and even then:  Will it sound ok?

Welp here's some pix -thanks for the inspiration Bob Dias!





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Offline dizz

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2010, 09:40 AM »
The shell is 13" in diameter
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Offline Todd Norris

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2010, 05:21 PM »
Nicely done!  Keep us posted! 

Offline dizz

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 07:38 PM »
Thanks for the look Todd!  I have an update.  Cut some preliminary edges:


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Offline dizz

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 07:44 PM »
The shell wall thickness is 1.25" at it's thickest cross section.  I want to check it out before I go and cut down the inside.  The pictures don't do the shell justice (inside of the shell).

The diameter of the shell is 13".  The one pic with the ruler is kind of an optical illusion.  Ill try and upload a diameter shot.  Depth is 5.5"

If it ends up sounding odd or down right bad, I can always go back and trim the inner surface.  But once it's done there's no adding material.

It's been a fun albeit labor intensive project.  I've already learned many things not to do for next time and what to do too.

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Offline Todd Norris

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 08:20 PM »
Wow, 1.25" that's a monster!  I've not seen anyone not do the inside so it will be interesting to hear what you think of it.  If you do finish the inside, it will also be interesting to see what thickness you end up at. 

Offline Bill Bachman

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2010, 11:54 PM »
This is seriously cool. What machine is that? A planer? Is there play where the drum spool mount sits on the bar? Wouldn't that effect how it gets into round? How would/will you go about trimming the inside to make it round?

I love these projects.
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Offline dizz

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2010, 07:19 AM »
Hi Bill

Thanks for stopping in to my thread.

What you're looking at is simply a router table with an unrelated crossbar to support the drum.  The crossbar is not intended to be a precision mount, but just to take some of the weight of the drum.  Looking at the picture you can see that any play involved with the crossbar:shelljig marriage will only take the drum further from the blade and not closer, so it's not an issue.  It just helps take some of the weight and keep it somewhat in the correct area.  As you can imagine that oak is pretty heavy to deal with by hand alone.

The precision elements involved are 1) the 2 side disks attached to the shell and the router itself (it can be adjusted up or down with a total range of about 2".  I've added some pix to illustrate better what the tool is doing.

The 4 blocks on the top board keep the shell from moving laterally too much.







PS After seeing your hi hat stand idea, I'm sure you are capable of building a stave drum as long as you have some tools.  That hi hat is really a great idea.
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Offline Bob Dias

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2010, 01:55 PM »
Dizz!
It looks great. Gotta love those router jigs.
Can't wait to see/hear the finished shell.  Now that I am settled in in CO, time to get my shop back in order!

You'll love the sound and look of the oak.

cheers, Bob
"It's O.K. if you only know three chords, but for God's sake, play'em in the right order" (H. Hill)

Offline Vintage Ludwig

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2010, 08:55 AM »
Ive been thinking of buying a Brady 8x14 Sheaoak stave snare.  This is pretty cool and looking forward to how it turns out. Hats off to you for doing this.  Its lots of work but gratifying in the end Im sure!

Cool stuff 8)

Offline dizz

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2010, 05:57 PM »
Bob and Luddy

Thanks for the kind words!!

I hope I can approach the quality Bob displayed on his DIY stave kit.  I have an update now that I have some stain and seal on it.   I just need some hardware now :D


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Offline Bob Dias

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 11:28 AM »
Nice! The grain really pops.  Hardware = chaching.  Save the pennies and get the good stuff!

nice work. you're giving me the workshop bug again...Bob
"It's O.K. if you only know three chords, but for God's sake, play'em in the right order" (H. Hill)

Offline Bart Elliott

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2010, 10:23 AM »
Great work dizz; very impressive. I'm looking forward to hearing the drum once you are finished, but I'm enjoying the process.

Be sure to shoot some video when the time is right!

Offline dizz

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2010, 05:22 AM »
Thanks for stopping in and dropping a note, Bart.  When I started I wasn't expecting to end up with a decent product but as each stage is completed, it's looking more and more like a real drum -to my surprise.

As Bob said, "save your pennies for the good hardware", that's what Im going to have to do.  I frankly don't have the dough to go out and get the proper hardware at the moment and I don't want to shortchange the final stage.  So it might be a little while before I get to actually play it.
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Offline dizz

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2010, 09:17 PM »
Hard to know if these edges are done or not, not being able to put a head on and tune, but I can say this, these edges are flat.  The inner 45 degree bearing edge cut apexes up to the bearing edge that 45s out to the perimeter of the drum.  2 45's.  I can always change it. 

One alternative was to 45 it from the inside out -just one cut.  That would put the head contact over the very outer section of shell.  I figured with this shell as thick as it is, I should put the edge a bit more toward the middle of the shell.  I've got a lot more wood under the bearing edge this way.  And with all the wood on this shell -it seemed like the way to go.  I could  be totally wrong.  We'll find out eventually.

Anyhow I have some updates of the work I've done to the bearing edges.  Was pretty tough to get focused pix of the edge.  There are a couple with the shell sitting inside a 13" pearl brass piccolo.  Gives a little perspective to the shell and helps me imagine hardware on it.

I think the grain looks interesting when the segments are book-matched.




These next 2 are my clearest edge pix



Nice snug fit without resistance:





Tried to repair a little chip out here:  Still need to put some sandpaper to it, and maybe a chisel.  That one segment has a few chips out of it for some reason.  It's a bit darker and the grain is different.



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Offline dizz

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2010, 10:18 AM »
OK I about to layout the lug placement.  8 lug drum but 12 segments.  As you can see the inside is not rounded so that creates a few issues that need to be planned for.

Either I can place the lugs in the center of 4 segments and on the joint of 4 segments, or I can shift all holes over a quarter of a segment and all hole thicknesses should be consistent.

Just wondering how that would look.  Shifting all the holes over a quarter segment, would expose all joints (I wouldn't have been able to cover them all anyway unless I used a 12 lug design which I have never seen on a 13" diameter drum.) 

Does drilling through a joint make a weak spot?  The way I understand it, the joints are actually not weak spots for a traditional 1/4" shell thickness, but with a 1.25" shell thickness, the joints may in fact be the weak spots.

I am leaning toward the shift over a quarter segment idea, but wanted some feedback and thoughts from anyone who can add advice here.  What do you think?

Also, I'd be interested to hear about any tricks or techniques for laying out perfectly spaced holes.  Thanks all

~dz
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Offline dizz

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2010, 11:43 PM »
I have some excellent news!  The drum sounds wonderful.  Here's what I did today.

I robbed hardware from other drums I have to get this one going.  Took the rims and the whole throw mechanism from my Pearl brass piccolo.   Took the lugs and lug nuts from a $10 craigslist snare that is cheap as cheap can be.  I actually like the look of the lugs ok, but they are low quality.  The worst part is the lug bolts though -dare I say they suck outright.  Oh well, Ill get better stuff in time.

Anyhow as you can see in this pic, I went with the 1/4 segment layout:


When I first put the heads on for the first time, I was disappointed in the sound.  Turns out the drum needed a snare bed cut into it.  Made all the difference!  I can't wait to put a sound sample together -perhaps something like James Walker used to do haha.  Not sure you can see the snare bed in these pix



The drum is not perfect.  I needed to take more material off the outside of the shell it turns out I needed more patients on that phase of construction.  The shell is a little fatter in the center than it is at the edges.  The lugs had decent rubber gaskets that I had to take off because it oriented the lugs too far away from the shell edge and the lug bolts were not perfectly vertical.  It's not so bad that there is danger of stripping, but something to note for next time.  It's important to get that part right.  The lug bolts came with some horrible washers

I should have wiped it down for the pix -there are fingerprints all over the place.  That's what happens when you're working on it still.







Welp, Ill finalize this thread with some audio files eventually.  Im going to play this snare on a gig tonite, so I'll have some feedback.  Cheers!






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Offline dizz

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2010, 11:50 PM »
Forgot to mention, the drum feels really good too which is worth noting.  I know before the beds were cut, it did not feel good.  Nor did it sound good.  Except when the snares were disengaged.  But with the beds, it's all good.  I'm really digging it and I hope it holds up now.

If anyone is interested in having one made, let me know.  I'd love to build another.
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Offline Chip Donaho

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2010, 08:51 AM »
Congrats, what started on a whim turned into a very nice drum. I hope it sounds as good as it looks. I'm anxious to hear you thoughts after gigging with it.  8)
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Offline dizz

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Re: my stave drum experiment
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2010, 01:35 PM »
Thanks Chip

Well the gig went pretty well.  My band loves it.  Course, they'd say that tho, unless it just sounded pathetic.  But I really think it cuts nice.

I have a small sound file here with Tom Scott as playalong:

http://bobbyvincent.webs.com/new%20snare%20on%20TS%20stuff.mp3

I plan to make a better sample than this, but wanted to post something for now.  I didn't bother doing any mixing as you can hear it's just straight up + touch of verb.  It'll give you an idea of what this piccolo sounds like.
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