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Ludwig Supraphonic Problem

Started by Filacteria, April 05, 2004, 09:04 AM

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Filacteria

Falling prey to its immense hype, I recently got hold of a used BO 5x14 Supra on ebay.  I didn't read the description well and ended up with a drum missing its top rim  >:(...

I had a relatively hard time finding a top rim, so I ended up using a snare side hoop  :-\

When I finally assembled my "project" drum, I cringed at the sound: a loud, clanging, metallic racket with little to no bottom end, and tons of overtones which drowned any hopes of discerning a fundamental note... :'(

Is there something wrong with the drum or is this how it's supposed to sound?  I'm using an Evans G1 with a power dot on top and a Hazy 300 underneath.  I'm also using Canopus brass plated, 20-strand snares.

PLEASE HELP!!!!

Christopher

Id get a real top rim before you start judging the sound.


HDT

I own a Suprephonic I've had for years, and they can be a great snare, if you give it a little TLC.
First, get a real rim for it, like Christopher said.
Second, replace the batter head with a coated Remo Ambassador or its equivalent.
Make sure the snare-side head is in good condition, also... snare aren't bent, etc.
I agree that Supras CAN be ringy.  One thing that I've done, which is very low-tech, is to line the inside of the shell with duct tape.  It really gives it a warmer sound, and doesn't cut into the feel of the drum too much.
unless you have a warped drum, or some other problem (bearing edges, etc.) those steps, and a proper tuning SHOULD improve the sound of your Supra greatly.  Good luck!!!
p.s.  I lightly packed the lug housings with cotton, also, just enough to keep the springs from ringing.  

Nubert Thump

Get a real rim first. I have a 6.5X14 Supraphonic with Evans G1 batter and a Hazy 300 underneath and it sounds great.  While I'm not saying that is the only combination you can use, I know that is not your problem because it sounds great on mine. Very slight ring, which I like, but with that great sound that the Supraphonic is famous for.

Joe

I assume that you're well-versed in drum tuning before I proceed, and that you've tried such before posting?

You may have heard of stuffing the lug casings with cotton.  Not only does this measure eliminate spring rattle (very apparent when cross-sticking), but it eliminates the air space inside the casing which can aid ring.

The duct-tape idea is tried and true.  Another method for dampening when the drum is well-tensioned is to apply weatherstripping on the inside of the bearing edge flange.  I am told that this darkens the drum considerably.

I personally keep my Supra' at a medium-low tension on the batter and medium-tight on the resonant head.  My lug casings are stuffed, and I use an O-ring for dampening (since I like that well-dampened sound).  Other dampening methods hitherto described (at the Cafe as well as other places) may apply.

James Walker

Quote from: Joe K on April 05, 2004, 10:18 AMYou may have heard of stuffing the lug casings with cotton.  Not only does this measure eliminate spring rattle (very apparent when cross-sticking), but it eliminates the air space inside the casing which can aid ring.

Yep - and not just "ring," but "weird overtone" kind of ringing - those little air pockets inside the hollow lug casings are little resonating chambers.

QuoteThe duct-tape idea is tried and true.  Another method for dampening when the drum is well-tensioned is to apply weatherstripping on the inside of the bearing edge flange.  I am told that this darkens the drum considerably.

Yes, just getting SOMETHING in that little pocket of air where the edge is flanged over.  Even tho it's not closed off, it is another little resonating chamber inside the shell, and it can add some weird overtones to a drum.  I did use thin weatherstripping on one drum; another option I've heard suggested is applying a bead of urethane caulk inside the flange.  Different material, but still filling in the gap.

I found that on one steel snare I have, doing both the duct-tape and the flange-stuffing was overkill.  It has been a while since I've owned a Supra (I'm back in the market - those are nice snares), but I'd try the following before trying the mod's to the shell:

1)  Proper batter side counterhoop (as others have suggested) - a 2.3mm triple-flanged hoop, or if you want to spend another $20, a die-cast might be a nice choice.

2)  Stuff the lug casings with cotton.

I'd say "new heads," but I doubt that a power-dot G1 would add weird ringing, so I agree with Nubert that the heads likely aren't the issue here.

James Walker

Quote from: Filacteria on April 05, 2004, 09:04 AMI had a relatively hard time finding a top rim, so I ended up using a snare side hoop  :-\

Good online sources for drum hoops:

http://www.globaldrumco.net/DrumHardware.html]http://www.globaldrumco.net/DrumHardware.html
http://www.amdrumparts.com/hoops.htm]http://www.amdrumparts.com/hoops.htm
http://www.drummaker.com/shop]http://www.drummaker.com/shop

BBJones

Overtones produced from the skins can be taken care of nicely with a piece of moongel.


Filacteria

no wonder this forum is always full...THANKS EVERYONE!!!

Filacteria

Update:

I replaced the Evans head with a Remo Powerstroke 3 and the sound changed drastically.  It still needs to be fine-tuned, but I can say the drum has now become a keeper...

Thanks everyone for your help.  I'll get the cotton tonight...