Topic: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons  (Read 8501 times)

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Offline SteveR

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I've always been a big fan of Bozzio's drumming with Missing Persons and this is one of my favorite grooves. Almost sounds like he was borrowing from 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover. I think this is in 6/4 although it's really hard to tell where '1' is.

Here's a pretty good video (from 1983) of the song/groove. You can just tell by watching the other band members that they really get off to playing with Bozzio. Gotta love the roto-tom kit, not to mention the ostinato solo during the outro. Textbook Bozzio.

Enjoy.

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Offline Steve Phelps (Shoeless)

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2008, 12:09 AM »
I think this is in 6/4 although it's really hard to tell where '1' is.


http://www.youtube.com/v/Cm4kdenL89o&hl=en

I was surprised a few years ago to find out this was actually in 4/4, more or less. Both sections, the riff and the verses are in 4, the thing is when you play them back to back, they displace the backbeat during the verse by an 8th. If you keep a steady 4 pulse between parts you will land in the same place again, so there is an even number of beats throughout, no odd measures thrown in. Can't speak for the middle part, though.

Of course none of this matters to play the thing.
Now let's go out there and melt some faces!

Paicey

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2008, 11:05 AM »
Something tells me Terry Bozzio might actually be thinking when hes playing. I always thought Terry had a hip attitude.

felix

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2008, 04:20 AM »
That was totally awesome Steve, thanks.

Offline David Crigger

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2008, 04:38 AM »
I was surprised a few years ago to find out this was actually in 4/4, more or less. Both sections, the riff and the verses are in 4, the thing is when you play them back to back, they displace the backbeat during the verse by an 8th. If you keep a steady 4 pulse between parts you will land in the same place again, so there is an even number of beats throughout, no odd measures thrown in. Can't speak for the middle part, though.

Of course none of this matters to play the thing.

Actually, I would say it matters a great deal.

Though nteresting insight into the fact that a great deal of it does work out when you just count 4 across it. But even though that's true, I don't get any sense that is actually in four all the way through.

Steve - Yes, I think the vamp/intro is in 6/4 as well. What makes "1" so hard to find is that the first note - the big long bass note is always the beat before "1".

So below I've posted a quick rhythmic sketch - just a cheat sheet chart - showing the gtr rhythm, some drum stuff and some bass stuff. Not at all a transcription of the drum part, but more the framework of the tune rhythmically (that the drum part when written out would fit into). I particularly like the deceptiveness of the last 5/4 bar - where Terry completely sells that last fill as a fill leading right into the downbeat....but then it's not the downbeat, but rather the beat before the downbeat. But he doesn't telegraph that at all.

This has inspired me to go dig up my old Missing Persons albums - Terry was writing this very commercial stuff - that was just chock full of these little sophistications. I really liked this period of Terry's work... actually I've liked all of Terry's periods.  So hopefully this isn't too scribbly to make sense - too late at night to even think about re-copying it.  :-)






Offline Steve Phelps (Shoeless)

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 03:51 PM »
I am but a mere Padawan humbled in the presence of a master. It does work better in 6. Thanks for taking the time.
Now let's go out there and melt some faces!

Offline David Crigger

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 07:34 PM »
I am but a mere Padawan humbled in the presence of a master. It does work better in 6. Thanks for taking the time.

You're welcome.

This two bars of 6/4 vs. three bars of 4/4 type of thing comes up often. And, of course, it could be written either way - and could be played exactly the same, but...

My rule of thumb, when deciding which way to write something like that - so I can best get my mind around how to interpret it playing-wise - is to go with only what I hear being played. Meaning in this case - we've got a 6 beat repeating pattern, which by default would be 6/4. If it were a 6 beat repeating pattern across 4/4, where's the audible 4/4? In other words, I would be looking for a hint - from Terry or the bass player - even the smallest little nod that would suggest that one thing is playing against the other.  In this case, I got no sense of that, thus I went with 6/4.

Similar discussions come up about the Sting odd meter tunes that Vinnie sort of "straightens out" on Ten Summoner Tales. As though, by his playing of seven 1/4 note cym bells across two bars of 7/8 that it somehow makes sense to think of  "Saint Augustine in Hell" as being in 7/4 when approaching playing it. When ever part of the song and everything everybody plays - except that ride bell - is clearly in 7/8.

Thinking, counting or other-wise approaching that song as though it is in that slow 7/4 would seriously change the end result feel-wise IMO.

Just as it would if the bar lines were in different places on US Drag.

David

Offline Jim R.

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2008, 09:48 AM »
Thanks David for all that insight!

Also, I believe Terry transcribed US Drag and demonstrates the linear groove in on one of his first drum/instructional videos. I think I still have the booklet that came with it.

I love all the Terry has brought to drumming recently, but I was also taken a back a bit when in this video he is playing so many 'licks' that he plays today. How he plays is really who he is and he continues to push himself in new directions.
So much to do, so little mind.

Offline SteveR

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2008, 10:23 AM »
Wow, David. Thanks so much for that transcription and taking the time to post it. It's pretty much how I've transcribed it in my head - except for the verses. I always thought the bass drum was on 2 & 4, not 1 & 3. I'm going to go back and listen with this new perspective and see if it makes sense to my internal time signature. Thanks again!

Quote from: Jim. R
I love all the Terry has brought to drumming recently, but I was also taken a back a bit when in this video he is playing so many 'licks' that he plays today. How he plays is really who he is and he continues to push himself in new directions.
Agree with this.

I was, however, a little surprised and disappointed to learn that he was playing with Korn. I hope any Korn fans don't take this the wrong way, but I think that's kind of beneath him. Here's a guy that has played with Zappa and has been one of the most innovative drummers of our time....and he's playing with Korn? It's kind of like Dave Weckl wanting to tour with Ashley Simpson. Just seems odd. But that's just my flea bitten opinion.
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Offline Nathan Cartier

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2008, 10:39 AM »
I was, however, a little surprised and disappointed to learn that he was playing with Korn. I hope any Korn fans don't take this the wrong way, but I think that's kind of beneath him. Here's a guy that has played with Zappa and has been one of the most innovative drummers of our time....and he's playing with Korn? It's kind of like Dave Weckl wanting to tour with Ashley Simpson. Just seems odd. But that's just my flea bitten opinion.

No offense taken.  He only tracked about 6 songs for Korn's latest album, then he left that project and Brooks Wackerman finished it.  I think he may have performed with Korn once or twice, but that chair now belongs to Ray Luzier. 

The songs with Bozzio are...weird.  Some of the tracks could easily stand amongst Terry's other work, but they're just too artsy for the Korn fans.
 

Offline Chris Whitten

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2008, 04:02 PM »
Yes, great insights.
As a way to identify time signatures I usually check for chord changes or patterns in a vocal part. With pop artists, even if the drums are all over the shop, there is usually an instrument in the backing track changing on the downbeat. If the chord changes are every 7th beat, the time is most likely in 7.
It was hard to hear on this live MP video though.


I was, however, a little surprised and disappointed to learn that he was playing with Korn. I hope any Korn fans don't take this the wrong way, but I think that's kind of beneath him.

It's all music. Nothing is beneath Bozzio.
Playing simple music is a challenge. Not only that, but musicians just enjoy working with other musicians sometimes. The complexity or not of the music would rarely be considered.
I actually much prefer Bozzio when he is playing simple rock patterns (Bongo Fury).
He's a tasteful drummer with an immense groove.

Offline Ryan Robles

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2018, 04:45 PM »
Hello. 

It alternates between 12/8 and 4/4.    ;)

Offline Bart Elliott

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Re: Old School Terry Bozzio Groove - US Drag, by Missing Persons
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2018, 10:10 AM »
It alternates between 12/8 and 4/4.    ;)

Actually it is not.

If you read the thread you'll see that it's syncopated sixteenth notes. Look at the notation by David Crigger. It is a mixture of 6/4 and 4/4 with an occasional 5/4 bar. At no point is the eighth-note getting the pulse.

 

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