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LOUNGE => General Board => Topic started by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 10:45 AM

Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 10:45 AM
watching him play the halftime show only made it worse.
i just dont get it...

he must look in the mirror every morning and thank his lucky stars


that is all
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Joe on February 06, 2006, 10:45 AM
How does he bother you?
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 10:47 AM
watching him play is just kinda disturbing...hes looks really stiff.

also he rarely hits the hihat and snare at the same time...

not saying he doesnt do his job, just that he bothers me.

oh and is that some sort of china hes has mounted just above his rack tom?

again...kinda bothers me
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Paul DAngelo on February 06, 2006, 10:53 AM
hes looks really stiff.  

also he rarely hits the hihat and snare at the same time...
He may be a little stiff because he's 64 and just got over a bout with throat cancer.  

His hi-hat snare drum thing has been going on since they've been around.  It's odd, but it's his style.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Joe on February 06, 2006, 11:00 AM
Well, it's a little better understood now that you've defined your stance. :)

I had forgotten about his throat cancer.  Wasn't he always a bit "stiff", though?  I suppose that if he were to flop around more, he couldn't set a good groove.

I believe that omitting the hi-hat stroke simultaneously with the snare drum is a way of accenting the stroke by merely increasing its presence, rather than volume which would deliver little more than a "crack".  It's a nice distictive sound, IMHO.

Generally I'm not a fan of china cymbals, but he plays his well.  Your mileage varies, I'm sure.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Bart Elliott on February 06, 2006, 11:03 AM
also he rarely hits the hihat and snare at the same time...

oh and is that some sort of china hes has mounted just above his rack tom?


I would suggest that you are letting little things that don't matter ... well, bother you.

Who is to say that you must hit the Snare and HiHat at the same time? Since when does a cymbal placement really matter?

Sorry that it bothers you, but I can think of a lot of other things that are worth being concerned about when it comes to playing drums.

Being stiff is a good concern, but like mudlark pointed out, the guy is in his mid-60's and has had major health issues. Playing drums is the most physical instrument you can play. I say ... give the guy a break!
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Paul DAngelo on February 06, 2006, 11:06 AM
I had forgotten about his throat cancer.  Wasn't he always a bit "stiff", though?  
Yeah, once I wrote that it dawned on me that he's always appeared a bit "stiff" when he plays.  That's just pretty much Charlie Watts.

He plays what's required of a good Rolling Stones tune.  

Heck, Mick and the boys aren't a whole ot easier to look at than Charlie is. At least Charlie is always nattily attired!
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Joe on February 06, 2006, 11:11 AM
Heck, Mick and the boys aren't a whole ot easier to look at than Charlie is. At least Charlie is always nattily attired!

Yes.  I like his contrast.

And, if we may temporarily broaden the definition of "attire" to include his drumkit, I'd like to insert that I love seeing his Gretsch drums that he's had for I-don't-know-how-long.

I've yet to really hear his big band stuff.  All in all, though, he's an enjoyable drummer to watch, and I've always loved his bass drum sound.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Jon E on February 06, 2006, 11:11 AM
oh brother.........

how many times is this thread going to be started???!!!

charlie watt's style is old news--even on this board.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Dave Heim on February 06, 2006, 11:15 AM
Yeah, once I wrote that it dawned on me that he's always appeared a bit "stiff" when he plays.  That's just pretty much Charlie Watts.

He plays what's required of a good Rolling Stones tune.  

Heck, Mick and the boys aren't a whole ot easier to look at than Charlie is. At least Charlie is always nattily attired!

Charlie always looks distinguished.  The other guys always look like they were ridden hard and put away wet.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Joe on February 06, 2006, 11:21 AM
Yea I had a good laugh watching them geezers play last night...

A genuine thought I had while watching Mick Jagger last night...

"Man.  I want to be that kind of geezer when I grow up.".
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Paul DAngelo on February 06, 2006, 11:30 AM
oh brother.........
how many times is this thread going to be started???!!!
charlie watt's style is old news--even on this board.

Advice:

take a pill.

 ;)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 11:30 AM
not saying he doesnt do his job...not saying his "cymbal placement" is a problem...just bothersome to watch him play...hahah

who knew it would get such a rise.

also im 26 and dont really remember what the "young" charlie was like.

Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Joe on February 06, 2006, 11:51 AM
he was the same! go to drummerworld.com...

Speaking of...

They have  http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/charliewattssuperbowl.html]video  already.

Mr. Castiglioni is fast.  Yes, there's a bobble at the beginning; I like it anyway. :)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Dave Heim on February 06, 2006, 11:57 AM

also im 26 and dont really remember what the "young" charlie was like.


Younger, less gray, more carefree, more nimble.  They even named a fragrance (and some angels) after him!  :)
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: JeepnDrummer on February 06, 2006, 11:58 AM
The way someone else plays really bothers you that much?  Why expend the energy?  
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Joe on February 06, 2006, 12:00 PM
who knew it would get such a rise.

I think most of us... ;)

Quote
also im 26...

So am I.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 12:00 PM
The way someone else plays really bothers you that much?  Why expend the energy?  

just thought i would toss it out there.... see others opinions.

id say it was worth it..i learned alittle about the man, the myth, the legend..

i think
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 12:03 PM
however his snare sounded pretty good...i only got a brief glance at it but it looked like dw.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Joe on February 06, 2006, 12:05 PM
Others more informed could tell meâ€"is he still using his 8 x 14" ?  Hopefully he just chose this drum so it would cut through what is essentially an airplane hangar....sounded good, though, yes.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: JeepnDrummer on February 06, 2006, 12:24 PM
however his snare sounded pretty good...i only got a brief glance at it but it looked like dw.
Yes, it's a DW.  The story behind that snare and how Charlie got it is detailed over at Drumsmith.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Ranman on February 06, 2006, 12:25 PM
watching him play is just kinda disturbing...hes looks really stiff.

also he rarely hits the hihat and snare at the same time...

not saying he doesnt do his job, just that he bothers me.

oh and is that some sort of china hes has mounted just above his rack tom?

again...kinda bothers me

Bet you don't bother him
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Christopher on February 06, 2006, 12:53 PM
Bet you don't bother him

My thoughts exactly...

 ::)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: felix on February 06, 2006, 01:11 PM
It took me almost 25  years to appreciate his playing and how GREAT of a drummer he is.  I only wish my meter was that great.  Charlie is a groove meister.

Maybe some day you will get it, maybe you won't... no biggie to me.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 01:17 PM
perhaps in time...also im not a big stones fanatic and know very little about them.

charlie might be a great guy who gives all his money to charity, goes home to a beautiful family and practices good health habits.

no i dont bother him..most professionals dont let opinions get to them...

ill just have to make sure next time i decide to voice an opinion here..i should make sure its about peter criss
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Snowdogyyz on February 06, 2006, 01:21 PM
You get the same reactions to Ringo, Neil Peart, etc, etc.  Some people think they are the cat's meow, others think they are overrated and unworthy. Different strokes for different folks!
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 01:23 PM
understood...its all over this place..haha

but hey if everyone was the same..life would be really boring
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Dave Heim on February 06, 2006, 01:25 PM
but hey if everyone was the same..life would be really boring

Bingo!
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: speedking on February 06, 2006, 01:25 PM
Back in the day I would watch Keith Moon play on film and scratch my head because what he was playing did not look like what he sounded like. Years later I found out that all of his toms were tuned the same. I think if each of his toms were tuned to them self the music would have sounded insane.I have watched alot of drummers over the years and some guys are fun to watch and some not but in the end its the sound that counts.IMO. Charlie Rocks!!
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Joe on February 06, 2006, 01:28 PM
ill just have to make sure next time i decide to voice an opinion here..i should make sure its about peter criss

Hey!  As long as your opinion is informed, you can decry Steve Gadd for all I care.  In fact, we could use some opposing viewpoints upon his playing. :)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 01:36 PM
ahaha
just picking
i know about as much about peter as i do charlie.
very very little

i could just imagine one of my old teacher telling charlie "use more wrist less elbow!!!"

of course as some mentioned earlier...hes pretty old

so i guess the fact that he can stil get it moving is a good thing.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: jokerjkny on February 06, 2006, 01:40 PM
Charlie always looks distinguished.  The other guys always look like they were ridden hard and put away wet.

+1

besides, just close your eyes, and listen with your ears, and let the magic of Charlie's backbeat wash over you.  

heck, when i hear Steve Jordan going into rock mode, i hear LOTS of charlie groove in his feel.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: jokerjkny on February 06, 2006, 01:41 PM
Hey!  As long as your opinion is informed, you can decry Steve Gadd for all I care.  In fact, we could use some opposing viewpoints upon his playing. :)

he really needs to tune his snare higher...    :P
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 01:47 PM
now i do enjoy watching steve jordan...
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Joe on February 06, 2006, 01:56 PM
he really needs to tune his snare higher...    :P

Can I make a confession?

I'm getting really sick of that paradiddle-hi-hat choke thing he does.  Of course, he does it so well, though, and consistently so.

And while I like his sounds, I can't say I don't hear you as to the snare drum.  What's that from, anyway; the imitation of a field drum?  I do think he pulls out higher snare drum sounds from time to time, though; I've even seen him with a piccolo in some photo.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: DWdrmr on February 06, 2006, 02:53 PM
just thought i would toss it out there.... see others opinions.

id say it was worth it..i learned alittle about the man, the myth, the legend..

i think

The reason this did'nt work so well, other than the obvious, is I said basically the same thing in another thread.."under appreciated drummers"..when somebody threw his name out there. And got exactly the same response.. :P This thread is still up there, but you can see from the date on it...we just went thru this   ;)  if you would care to peruse it.. :)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: genetics17 on February 06, 2006, 03:16 PM
Coming from a family of musicians, I grew up with the stones playing in the background. Last night during their performance, I had to listen to everybody criticize the aged looks of one of the greatest bands ever. I guess that just goes to show that people dont just listen to the music anymore. Mick Jaggar at his age looks like he's in better shape than most front men I see today and in my opinion, the stones played hard and gave a great performance. Charlie Watts has always had the same style which makes him as a drummer unique and respected. Anyway, I thought I'd throw in my two pennies worth.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: DougB on February 06, 2006, 03:24 PM
Coming from a family of musicians, I grew up with the stones playing in the background. Last night during their performance, I had to listen to everybody criticize the aged looks of one of the greatest bands ever. I guess that just goes to show that people dont just listen to the music anymore. Mick Jaggar at his age looks like he's in better shape than most front men I see today and in my opinion, the stones played hard and gave a great performance. Charlie Watts has always had the same style which makes him as a drummer unique and respected. Anyway, I thought I'd throw in my two pennies worth.

Interestingly the people at my party were all talking about how Mick was in pretty good shape for his age, especially given all the years of drug abuse.  The same cannot be said about Keith Richards.

The funniest thing that Mick said, during the intro to Satisfaction was "we could have played this at Super Bowl I".  That gives you an idea of how long he's been around.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 03:27 PM
at his age id be proud to wear womans pants too...
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: felix on February 06, 2006, 03:28 PM
LONG LIVE THE ROLLING STONES!!!!  That was awesome.  I thought they were GREAT.

Yeah, that's all me and my customers and suppliers have been talking about at work today- how cool the Stones' halftime show was.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Christopher on February 06, 2006, 03:34 PM
LONG LIVE THE ROLLING STONES!!!!

I saw them last night on TV, you're too late. They've died...

 ;D

Flame away.

 ;)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 03:41 PM
i want whatever energy drink sponsors the stones....
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: KevinD on February 06, 2006, 03:58 PM
Well, from the perspective at looking at his technicque, his left hand looks a little stiff. BUT if you listened to him playing each stroke was powerful and consistent, the dynamics of his 2 &4 did not vary and were right on in terms of time.  I don't know what else he could do to make it sound better.

I think he's pretty good drummer and I was pleasantly surprised when I first heard his big band stuff. He is quite a student of the history big band drumming as well.

Steve Jordan has said more than a few complimentary things about Charlie Watts in interviews and on his videos.

If i'm still ticking half as well when I'm his age I'll be happy!

NOW about Peter Criss....
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Dave Heim on February 06, 2006, 04:00 PM
i want whatever energy drink sponsors the stones....


Formaldehyde?  :)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: onmyown on February 06, 2006, 04:04 PM
Formaldehyde?  :)

nice
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: moxman on February 06, 2006, 04:50 PM
Charlie stiff? You think its easy to play that stiff? Just try grinding your stick into the snare head all the time, night after night - it takes years of practice. .. and do you know how hard it is to keep a steady meter going when you drop the hihat everytime you hit the snare?

The guy has always played that way and he's a master of it. All this stuff about playing relaxed and loose is just baloney - we don't need no stinkin' rebound... Charlie's da man! ;D
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Chip Donaho on February 06, 2006, 05:50 PM
Charlie is Charlie....No other way to look at it. I loved the show. It shows that age has nothing to do with music for people that love it. Those guys are just a few years older than me. I grew up with them, the Beatles, Kinks, Yardbirds, etc.... But the Stones are still themself in every way. They looked old from the start.... They were all born old looking. But they rock! Charlie plays both simple and complicated. Many drummers got their start because of listening to him. I can't discredit the man in any way....  8)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: speedking on February 06, 2006, 06:58 PM
I had an interesting convesation with Max Wienburg a few years back about Charlie's style. We were both playing on this ship in the Bahamas for 3 days and hung out a little Max wrote this cool book calld The Big Beat and he interveiwd Charlie and many other great drummers. it's worth checking out.Anyway we talked about Charlie's style and played on each others kit's and applyed that hat snare sticking thing on some stuff.I dont know if it has advantages or disadvantages but its fun to apply sometimes it can break up the monotony of doing beats the same way every night.I sure wish I was playing on some of those stones songs.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: jokerjkny on February 06, 2006, 08:44 PM
well, now that we're talking about the stones,

the only "post 60s heyday" period i really appreciated the stones were during their early '80s "comeback" when Tattou You came out i.e. "Start Me Up".  

one of my literal first memories of my life is seeing jagger & co. @ the old JFK stadium in philly with my dad and uncle.  they were freakin' electricfiying.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Jon E on February 06, 2006, 08:45 PM
Quote
I had an interesting convesation with Max Wienburg a few years back ......

Louis Bellson once told me, "Don't be a name dropper".
 ;)
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Dave Heim on February 06, 2006, 08:47 PM
Louis Bellson once told me, "Don't be a name dropper".
 ;)

Jon, Louie asked me to tell you to stop quoting him.  :)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Dave Heim on February 06, 2006, 08:52 PM
So, with the dust settling on all the discussion here about Charlie and the Stones, I have to admit it was good to see them playing.  

Straight ahead rock & roll as only they can do it.  Not enough close-ups of Charlie, audio in need of tweaking at least at first, a couple of words here and there screened out to prevent a 'lyric malfunction'. . .  but all in all, they still know how to blow the roof off the joint.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: DWdrmr on February 06, 2006, 09:16 PM
All I can say is...thank God the onus is off me..for ever mentioning Charlie in the "underappreciated drummers" post...I won't do that again..
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Jay Northrop on February 07, 2006, 12:27 AM
I dig Charlie. A very good in the pocket player.Not the most technical guy around...and yeah a bit stiff. But its Charlie...one of a kind. And he plays what fits the song..he suites the song.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Louis Russell on February 07, 2006, 07:28 AM
I have always wondered if Charlie is really stiff or if he only looks stiff.  
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: junglelord on February 07, 2006, 07:53 AM
I find his playing serves the song.
I also find the hihat drop beat can help timing, at least for me.
I find that Keith Richards style of guitar work begs for that type of groove.
found that out myself years ago, playing to the radio, long before I seen charlie, and was playing a Richards song that came along.
concerning stones song at time in my life i had  played none.
so it just seemed like the right thing to do.
years after and i played some stones and well it just fit.
therefore i think it has lot to do with the guitar actually.

now is he exciting to watch?
NO.
Is that his goal?
NO.
I too would love to hear his bigband stuff.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Louis Russell on February 07, 2006, 08:17 AM
now is he exciting to watch?

That is a good point.  I listened to his music for years before I watched him play.  He doesn't sound stiff at all.  
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Shane Stylianos on February 07, 2006, 10:09 AM
A genuine thought I had while watching Mick Jagger last night...

"Man.  I want to be that kind of geezer when I grow up.".

You mean the kind that people look at and say,"That's disgusting!!!"

(in reference to Mick Jaggar's "dancing" moves while singing)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Shane Stylianos on February 07, 2006, 10:12 AM
Formaldehyde?  :)

 :D

 ;D

Very nice, my friend.  Very nice.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Dave Heim on February 07, 2006, 10:54 AM
OK, so the crowd of people on the field near the stage for the Stones show - I'm assuming they were hand-picked, invited, contest winners, something like that.  They all seemed to be overacting just a tad.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Joe on February 07, 2006, 11:10 AM
now is he exciting to watch?
NO.

Actually, I find him quite exciting in contrast, since he's about the only one who stays as motionless andâ€"well, relaxed.  I think it must take a LOT of relaxing to be able to look as stiff.  I think Louis hit upon something.

You mean the kind that people look at and say,"That's disgusting!!!"

(in reference to Mick Jaggar's "dancing" moves while singing)

I will turn my deaf ear toward those people, or otherwise ignore them (pending the intact nature of my hearing at that age), and hope they learn better.  Basically, I'll be a male "Red Hatter", though not with all of the clothing and (so much) tea.  I will have to think of an analogue.

BTW, I love the irony of your avatar-caption

OK, so the crowd of people on the field near the stage for the Stones show - I'm assuming they were hand-picked, invited, contest winners, something like that.  They all seemed to be overacting just a tad.

People are usually rented (in a volunteer sort-of-way) for such events, to ensure the reactions you saw right on camera.  Though, I daresay very few of those reactions were forced. :)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: speedking on February 07, 2006, 01:56 PM
Louie Bellson once told me "Id give my left arm to be ambidextrous!!!!"
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Ryan on February 07, 2006, 02:25 PM
I love the Drummer Cafe.

I hate Kevin Costner...

but I love the Drummer Cafe.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Shane Stylianos on February 07, 2006, 02:27 PM

BTW, I love the irony of your avatar-caption

forgive my ignorance, but what "irony?"
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Ranman on February 07, 2006, 02:41 PM
forgive my ignorance, but what "irony?"

(https://www.drummercafe.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg147.imageshack.us%2Fimg147%2F1522%2Firony444x2855os.jpg&hash=4730918d441e0879113c7f8ee9080536)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: speedking on February 07, 2006, 02:50 PM
Ranman, thanks that was the first good hard laugh of the day for me.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: mapexdrummer1234 on February 07, 2006, 04:33 PM
I agree with Bart completely. Charlie Watts is... Charlie Watts. I'm sure some things I do in playing would bother some of you.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Rylie on February 07, 2006, 05:57 PM
I know this might be considered blasphemous to all of the Stones worshippers, but I stopped being a Stones fan of any sort the day I heard the Steel Wheels album. I have never stopped being a Charlie Watts fan though. He is the definition of confidence behind a drum set - second nature. What some have described as "stiff", I see as absorbed.

Their latest album gives me hope though, but I have to admit that I do get embarrassed watching Mick trying to maintain a white knuckle grip on hipness.

I saw them live in '70 and 72, and at the time I ptretended (admittedly out of teenage peer pressure I guess) to love their show. Honestly, in my opinion, they suck live. Charlie is unmatched when it comes to accurate timing and creating a groove, but the rest of the band is too busy trying to live up to a reputation on stage to worry about what they sound like.

I still love and listen to Sticky Fingers, Let it bleed, get yer yayas out, etc., and always will, but I can't watch them live without being embarrassed for Mick and Keith.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: William Leslie on February 07, 2006, 07:43 PM
Are you sure it isn't Charlies age and the fact that he is still on top of his game that bothers you. I think most drummers would like to be in that position when they reach that age. Most don't even reach that point at any age, not to mention staying in that position all those years. Charlie has always been a little stiff, as was mentioned earlier, and for his style of playing, well it got hime where he is so why change now? Ringo is one who slams the hat and snare together. Watts is a different drummer and his own person.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Dave Heim on February 07, 2006, 09:16 PM
Are you sure it isn't Charlies age and the fact that he is still on top of his game that bothers you. I think most drummers would like to be in that position when they reach that age. Most don't even reach that point at any age, not to mention staying in that position all those years. Charlie has always been a little stiff, as was mentioned earlier, and for his style of playing, well it got hime where he is so why change now? Ringo is one who slams the hat and snare together. Watts is a different drummer and his own person.

So Charlie doesn't hit the snare and the hats at the same time.  So what?  Who wants to tell him he's doing it wrong?  Bueler?  Bueler?  Anyone?  Bueler?
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Kelly Minnis on February 07, 2006, 10:11 PM
The snare/hat thing....

I just recently watched both Gimme Shelter and Rock & Roll Circus and Charlie's leaving the hi-hat out on two and four wasn't always his style.  I'm not sure exactly when he switched.  I can say it started sometime between Altamont and the Steel Wheel tour's pay-per-view show that I saw in 1990.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: phantompong on February 08, 2006, 07:35 AM
forgive my ignorance, but what "irony?"

Completely, absolutely off-topic: Hello Styles! Nice to see a fellow ex-drumdog.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Shane Stylianos on February 09, 2006, 11:36 AM
Completely, absolutely off-topic: Hello Styles! Nice to see a fellow ex-drumdog.

There are no "Ex-Drumdogs" only Recovering ones.   ;D  I've almost got Bytor to sign up too, but I haven't seen him around.  I'll have to push harder.

Sorry, >thread un-hijacked.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Mark Counts on February 09, 2006, 02:45 PM
I think Charlie Watts, just Like Ringo with the Beatles was just what the Stones needed.  You all talk about old stiff drummers.
I am sitting here watching Ginger Baker play like a teen ager on this 2005 Cream DVD. If I am that loose when I am his age I will be a happy camper.  How can anyone really talk completely negative about any of these drummers that have made it big and stood the test of time?
                                   Nutty
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Joe on February 09, 2006, 03:07 PM
I am sitting here watching Ginger Baker play like a teen ager on this 2005 Cream DVD. If I am that loose when I am his age I will be a happy camper.  How can anyone really talk completely negative about any of these drummers that have made it big and stood the test of time?

Yes, I think he was in top form on Cream's live TV performance of "Strange Brew".
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: iad123 on February 18, 2006, 09:03 AM
Charlie Watts bothers me too!!  I have been watching him for 30 years and everytime I see him play, I feel like I'm watching a beginner.  He's stiff.  Whenever he crashes a cymbal, he seems so unsure of himself.  He certainly doesn't play with any kind of authority.  I can't imagine any other band hiring him.  If they did it would be soley for name recognition and not playing ability.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: DrummerMom on February 21, 2006, 07:51 AM
Charlie is 65 years old.  I hope to still be playing drums when I'm 65! (31 years from now).
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Jon E on February 21, 2006, 07:54 AM
Quote
Charlie Watts bothers me too!!  I have been watching him for 30 years

Charlie has asked me to ask you to stop watching him.  8)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: SlimChance on March 13, 2006, 03:13 PM
Charlie Watts is, far and away, my favorite rock'n'roll drummer and biggest influence.  The guy is amazing.

Now, it's Bonham I just don't get....
(ducks, runs...)
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Paul DAngelo on March 13, 2006, 04:04 PM
Charlie has asked me to ask you to stop watching him.  8)
It really bothers me that Charlie asked you that.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: NPYYZ on March 13, 2006, 07:40 PM
he was the same! go to drummerworld.com click on video at the top of the page than find charlie's pic you can watch many great drummers play.Keith Moon was another guy who was strange to watch.

Yeah but Keith Moon was a good drummer, Charlie Watts is not.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Ryan Culberson on March 13, 2006, 07:58 PM
Yeah but Keith Moon was a good drummer, Charlie Watts is not.

I'm curious to know your criteria/rationale used to arrive at this conclusion!  ::)

Please, do explain...
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: hankster on March 13, 2006, 08:19 PM
i have always enjoyed  charlie's  drumming.  he doesn't have a huge set but has enough for his needs. he is as solid as they come.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Dave Heim on March 13, 2006, 10:09 PM
Yeah but Keith Moon was a good drummer, Charlie Watts is not.

Somebody better give Charlie a call and let him know so he can stop being successful.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Ranman on March 13, 2006, 10:32 PM
Yeah but Keith Moon was a good drummer, Charlie Watts is not.

Uh huh..... then why does he have you beat?  8)

...and just to be clear, saying Charlie Watts is not a good drummer doesn't make you a better one. It makes you a worst one, because, its not how you should go about improving. Not to mention "I think" its very uncool on a drummer forum. Would you say it to his face? Its very very poor community. ...and even, though I dout you can or even will try to backup your words, what if your were better...I mean what your point?

There will always (in some aspects) be someone better and worst.

Charlie if your out there I got your back man! It gives me satisfaction.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: JeepnDrummer on March 14, 2006, 03:03 AM
Quote
Yeah but Keith Moon was a good drummer, Charlie Watts is not.
I'm curious to know your criteria/rationale used to arrive at this conclusion!  ::)

Please, do explain...
What, you don't know about the Drummer Ranking System (DRS)?  It's a completely objective evaluation methodology that anyone can use with absolute 100% accuracy.  Heck, even snot-bubble kids that know everything about drums can use it with total confidence.

Shock and awe your friends, neighbors, family and other drummers with your inarguable knowledge of who exactly is a great drummer and who's mediocre.  The questions in the DRS were painstakingly created to ensure that subjectivity was taken out of the equation.  The results of each evaluation will assign a ranking number for all drummers evaluated.  It's that easy!   ;D
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Mister Acrolite on March 14, 2006, 06:53 AM
I don't know - the fact that somebody can play such basic beats with a simple style and still be utterly and instantly recognizable among a sea of rock drummers suggests that maybe he's doing something kinda good.   ::)

Oh, and the fact that he's been a primary influence on other major drummers like Jeff Porcaro and Steve Jordan.  

But feel free to disagree. Me, I'd happily join any club of not-good drummers that Charlie's a member of.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: NPYYZ on March 14, 2006, 06:56 AM
Uh huh..... then why does he have you beat?  8)

...and just to be clear, saying Charlie Watts is not a good drummer doesn't make you a better one. It makes you a worst one, because, its not how you should go about improving. Not to mention "I think" its very uncool on a drummer forum. Would you say it to his face? Its very very poor community. ...and even, though I dout you can or even will try to backup your words, what if your were better...I mean what your point?

There will always (in some aspects) be someone better and worst.

Charlie if your out there I got your back man! It gives me satisfaction.


Hey I'm not looking for an arguement but I will backup my words.

The only way Charlie Watts "has me beat" is financially. I did not say he was not good in hopes of it making me better.  Also what I say does not affect my drumming ability in any way. I've heard the man play, yes he can lay down a basic rock beat with the best of them but that doesn't mean just because he plays drums for the Stones I have to worship the ground he walks on.  Some of the live stuff I've heard his tempo is all over the place. Personally I think the guy is lame. Sorry but he does not impress me at all.

Would I say it to his face you ask, sure, what's he going to do, beat me up?  Do you really think he gives a $hit if some no name drummer thinks he sucks? In the drumming world I'm the $hit on his toilet paper, and what I think of his drumming would mean absolutely nothing to him.

It's all a matter of opinion and yes opinions are like a$$holes, everyone’s got one and they all stink.

 Ok wrong choice of words, I’m sorry some feathers got ruffled.   If by "good" you mean he can play the most basic rock beats and simplistic fills then ok he's good.  In my 30 years of listening to him play, I've never heard him play anything that I could not play 3 years in to my drumming career. I never heard a Stones tune and said, wow nice drum part I have to learn that.  Keith Moon on the other hand presents many more challenges.

Charlie Watts is one of the most basic and boring drummers I've ever heard but his drumming fits the band he is in. Who knows, maybe he can play like a monster and just doesn't show it, ever. What I've seen and heard from him has never and will never impress me.

Yeah he's successful but he is also lucky that he and he pals formed a band back in the 60's when rock n roll was just taking off and it launched them into legend status almost overnight. Let's be honest here, if Charlie Watts was in any other run of the mill band none of you guys would even know who he is.

I understand that some drummers like Charlie and I have no problem with that. We all have our different styles and we all know what we like and what we feel is good. For me the very simple style of his playing just doesn't do it for me. I know what it's like to have one of your favorite drummers slammed. One of mine, Neil Peart gets slammed all the time, but I don't let it bother me.

EDIT: Just to add, I think Ringo is an excellent drummer.

Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: NPYYZ on March 14, 2006, 07:16 AM
Yea I had a good laugh watching them geezers play last night. just wondering have any of you heard Charlie's big band?He's sounds like a totaly different drummer.

I will have to check this out, maybe I'll find after listing to it that my foot is in my mouth. We'll see.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: NPYYZ on March 14, 2006, 07:27 AM
Well I just listened to a few tracks from Charlie Watts "long ago and far away" It the only Album available on RR raphsody. There was barely any drumming on the tunes I listened to, all were slow old ballads. I'll keep checking , they are always adding new albums. Not being a fan of his I can't see spending money on one of his albums and I refuse to use free file sharing programs. I believe the musicians should be compensated for their work. That's why I pay $10.00 a month to use RR Raphsody.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Louis Russell on March 14, 2006, 08:54 AM
Me, I'd happily join any club of not-good drummers that Charlie's a member of.

Yep, I wish I was not as good as Charlie myself!   ;D
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Ranman on March 14, 2006, 09:24 AM
Hey I'm not looking for an arguement but I will backup my words.

The only way Charlie Watts "has me beat" is financially. I did not say he was not good in hopes of it making me better.  Also what I say does not affect my drumming ability in any way. I've heard the man play, yes he can lay down a basic rock beat with the best of them but that doesn't mean just because he plays drums for the Stones I have to worship the ground he walks on.  Some of the live stuff I've heard his tempo is all over the place. Personally I think the guy is lame. Sorry but he does not impress me at all.

Would I say it to his face you ask, sure, what's he going to do, beat me up?  Do you really think he gives a $hit if some no name drummer thinks he sucks? In the drumming world I'm the $hit on his toilet paper, and what I think of his drumming would mean absolutely nothing to him.

It's all a matter of opinion and yes opinions are like a$$holes, everyone’s got one and they all stink.

 Ok wrong choice of words, I’m sorry some feathers got ruffled.   If by "good" you mean he can play the most basic rock beats and simplistic fills then ok he's good.  In my 30 years of listening to him play, I've never heard him play anything that I could not play 3 years in to my drumming career. I never heard a Stones tune and said, wow nice drum part I have to learn that.  Keith Moon on the other hand presents many more challenges.

Charlie Watts is one of the most basic and boring drummers I've ever heard but his drumming fits the band he is in. Who knows, maybe he can play like a monster and just doesn't show it, ever. What I've seen and heard from him has never and will never impress me.

Yeah he's successful but he is also lucky that he and he pals formed a band back in the 60's when rock n roll was just taking off and it launched them into legend status almost overnight. Let's be honest here, if Charlie Watts was in any other run of the mill band none of you guys would even know who he is.

I understand that some drummers like Charlie and I have no problem with that. We all have our different styles and we all know what we like and what we feel is good. For me the very simple style of his playing just doesn't do it for me. I know what it's like to have one of your favorite drummers slammed. One of mine, Neil Peart gets slammed all the time, but I don't let it bother me.

EDIT: Just to add, I think Ringo is an excellent drummer.



So what is it that your better at doing than Charlie? Playing like a clock? Because I rather listen to drummmer in a bar that has no tempo and even rushes though tom rolls than a metronome with hands that thinks he sounds good.

Just to add, I think Ringo is an excellent drummer also  ;D He is the elusive definitive example of gifted time keeping.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: NPYYZ on March 14, 2006, 09:51 AM
Where did I say that I was better at anything then Charlie Watts?  All I said was "Keith Moon was a good Drummer, Charlie Watts is not."

Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Mister Acrolite on March 14, 2006, 10:19 AM
Where did I say that I was better at anything then Charlie Watts?  All I said was "Keith Moon was a good Drummer, Charlie Watts is not."

I'd have been happy to be the guy who played on Honky Tonk Women, Paint It Black, Street Fighting Man, Satisfaction, and Start Me Up.

That all sounded like pretty good drumming to me - I don't think I could have made those records sound better.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: NPYYZ on March 14, 2006, 10:45 AM
I'd have been happy to be the guy who played on Honky Tonk Women, Paint It Black, Street Fighting Man, Satisfaction, and Start Me Up.

That all sounded like pretty good drumming to me - I don't think I could have made those records sound better.






Ok let me say this, Saying Charlie Watts is not good was a poor choice of words. Let me rephrase that and just say I was never really impressed with Mr. Watts playing. Obiviously to have the career he has had he must be good.  I don't think there is a drummer alive that would not want to have been the drummer who played those tunes. All great songs, just not what I'm looking for when I want to hear great drumming.

Another band that comes to mind , AC/DC  love the band but again the drummer does nothing for me. Who wouldn't kill for that gig?
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: felix on March 14, 2006, 10:58 AM
It took me almost 25  years to appreciate his playing and how GREAT of a drummer he is.  I only wish my meter was that great.  Charlie is a groove meister.

Maybe some day you will get it, maybe you won't... no biggie to me.

This was a bad post by me.  I retract it.

Stones tunes are like any sort of work of art.  You can live your whole life and hate Charlie and the Stones... it's your perogative and right.  I personally can't bear to listen to Dream Theater- I think for the most part they sound terrible as a band even though they are all great players.  Maybe some day I will appreciate them more, maybe not.  

Not every band is going to "strike a chord" within everyone (well maybe Barry Manilow  ;D) but you know what I mean.  Hey, I can see why Charlie would bother other drummers- the guy is tremendously successful, doesn't play a lick and crashes a single Paiste Rude just to rub it in!  I can see why it's slightly annoying (totally Rolling Stones.) all the more beautiful.  The Rolling Stones for me are a source of hope and inspiration.

Provacative thread though.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: DougB on March 14, 2006, 11:16 AM
I've just never been a real big Stones fan, so I can take him or leave him.  I've listened to some of their live stuff, and I was not impressed with the way the band plays in concert.  Others swear by their concerts.  So it's all a matter of opinion.  And I doubt Charlie cares one bit whether we think he's good or not.

BTW - regarding Ringo - I sat down and tried playing along to the Beatles 1 CD.  No one can ever convince me that Beatle's songs all sound the same or have the same beat.  Try playing along to some of their songs and you'll see how complex some of the beats were.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Tony on March 14, 2006, 11:18 AM
Hey I'm not looking for an arguement but I will backup my words.

The only way Charlie Watts "has me beat" is financially.

You think that's the only way he has you beat?  Man, I wish I had your skills and confidence, I'd be unstoppable.

Liking Charlie Watts is a perogative.  To condem his accomplishments, along with the Stones, is just plain ignorant.  The Stones are a rock and roll institution.  To spend 35+ years making successful music that sells millions around the world takes more than a little luck.  

I'm appalled at the closeminded attitudes of people like you.  You give musicians a bad rap.  It's not a contest.  If it was, I'm sure Charlie Watts would be right at the top, regardless his simplistic beats.

As for Phil Rudd (AC/DC) again, if you can't appreciate how difficult it is to play staright ahead rock and roll in the setting he's in, then you just don't get it.

Felix - I told this guy last night that the reason I can't listen to a lot of Dream Theater is because it has no soul.  I recognize their abilities, but their music just sounds like emotionless mechanics, with odd time thrown in because it's expected, you know what I mean?

Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: NPYYZ on March 14, 2006, 01:08 PM
You think that's the only way he has you beat?  Man, I wish I had your skills and confidence, I'd be unstoppable.

Liking Charlie Watts is a perogative.  To condem his accomplishments, along with the Stones, is just plain ignorant.  The Stones are a rock and roll institution.  To spend 35+ years making successful music that sells millions around the world takes more than a little luck.  

I'm appalled at the closeminded attitudes of people like you.  You give musicians a bad rap.  It's not a contest.  If it was, I'm sure Charlie Watts would be right at the top, regardless his simplistic beats.

As for Phil Rudd (AC/DC) again, if you can't appreciate how difficult it is to play staright ahead rock and roll in the setting he's in, then you just don't get it.

Felix - I told this guy last night that the reason I can't listen to a lot of Dream Theater is because it has no soul.  I recognize their abilities, but their music just sounds like emotionless mechanics, with odd time thrown in because it's expected, you know what I mean?



Ok this is my lat post on this subject. this will go on forever if we let it.  As far as I'm concerned there is not a real lot of skill involved in playing a Rolling Stones song. I'm sorry , I've been playing Drums for 27 years and it offers me no challenge at all. I'm not condeming Watts or the stones by the way. I don't know where you got that from.

I don't care how long the Stones have been around that does not make the master musicians in my mind. Areosmith has been around for  years also and they don't float my boat either. I stand by my statement that if Charlie Watts was playing Drums in some run of the mill band we would not even know who he is.

I don't consider myself closeminded, I just know what I like and what I listen to for inspiration, Charlie ain't it, plain and simple.

I do appreciate the fantastic job that Phil Rudd and other drummers have done with AC/DC, but to me there is nothing difficult about it. I hate to keep apologizing but it is just not hard for me to play Stones or AC/DC tunes. I've played several of both in the many bands I've been in over the years, they were enjoyable to play, the crowds loved them, but it didin't offer my any challenge when I learnd them. When it comes to drummers that I want to hear for inspiration and to further my skills they are not who I listen to.

Dream Theater has no soul , it's emotionless mechanics ?  Listen to" the answer lies within" "sacraficed sons"  "The silient man" "another day"  "though her eyes"  " I walk beside you" "hollow years" that should give you a start.

And that will be my final word on the matter....Good Night Now.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Louis Russell on March 14, 2006, 01:27 PM
they were enjoyable to play, the crowds loved them, but it didin't offer my any challenge


Since when is music required to be a challenge?  If it is fun to play and the crowds love it thats more than enough for me.   8)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: NPYYZ on March 14, 2006, 01:34 PM
Since when is music required to be a challenge?  If it is fun to play and the crowds love it thats more than enough for me.   8)

I promised myself I was done with this subject but I have to respond. Some of you are reading things that  I am not saying. I didn't say music has to be a challenge, I said those particular songs offered me no challenge. Heck I played in top 40 cover bands for years and 85% of the songs we played were simple, I made a good living and had a great time, no problem.

PS: I'd also like to add that I don't dislike the Stones or Charlie Watts. I happen to like the older Rolling Stones stuff. I have several of their older albums.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Tony on March 14, 2006, 01:40 PM
My final word?  I think you over value chops heavy drumming and undervalue groove.  Anyone with rudimentary skills can play the beats behind AC/DC or Stones songs, of that there is little debate.  To do it it succesfully, over the years, in a major, world reknown rock and roll band, while having every swinging d!ck marching corps, Mike Portnoy, Neil Peart clone bash your style isn't.  

A big difficulty in today's music business is remaining true to oneself and music, depsite what everyone and their mother says about you.  It doesn't matter if your Marilyn Manson or Charlie Watts.  The Stones have prevailed doing exactly what the Stones do for over 40 years.  Do you need anymore proof than that?  I mean, rock and roll is only 55 years old.  They are the one of, if not the longest continuous rock band still making relevant music today.  

And just for the record, Neil Peart is one of my biggest influences and favorite drummers (and people here will tell you I'll defend him more ferociusly than anyone), so I'm not anti-chops or prog.  I guess I just got bored with it when I got to college and realized how much more challenging music there was out there.  

Nice kit, BTW, I really see a lot of Neil Peart in your design and layout.  I guess I look at like this:  While Neil Peart's drum parts are unique, they are unique to him, much like Charlie Watts.  It's not impressive to me when someone plays Rush tunes note for note, like say in a Rush tribute band.  I find copying Neil's drum parts fairly easy as well, since I've been doing it for about 25 years myself.  It's creating those parts and songs that I find impressive, same as the Stones.  Remaining true to one's heart.  

Like you said, it could go on forever, so I'm out.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: NPYYZ on March 14, 2006, 01:45 PM
My final word?  I think you over value chops heavy drumming and undervalue groove.  Anyone with rudimentary skills can play the beats behind AC/DC or Stones songs, of that there is little debate.  To do it it succesfully, over the years, in a major, world reknown rock and roll band, while having every swinging d!ck marching corps, Mike Portnoy, Neil Peart clone bash your style isn't.  

A big difficulty in today's music business is remaining true to oneself and music, depsite what everyone and their mother says about you.  It doesn't matter if your Marilyn Manson or Charlie Watts.  The Stones have prevailed doing exactly what the Stones do for over 40 years.  Do you need anymore proof than that?  I mean, rock and roll is only 55 years old.  They are the one of, if not the longest continuous rock band still making relevant music today.  

And just for the record, Neil Peart is one of my biggest influences and favorite drummers (and people here will tell you I'll defend him more ferociusly than anyone), so I'm not anti-chops or prog.  I guess I just got bored with it when I got to college and realized how much more challenging music there was out there.  

Nice kit, BTW, I really see a lot of Neil Peart in your design and layout.  I guess I look at like this:  While Neil Peart's drum parts are unique, they are unique to him, much like Charlie Watts.  It's not impressive to me when someone plays Rush tunes note for note, like say in a Rush tribute band.  I find copying Neil's drum parts fairly easy as well, since I've been doing it for about 25 years myself.  It's creating those parts and songs that I find impressive, same as the Stones.  Remaining true to one's heart.  

Like you said, it could go on forever, so I'm out.



I can agree with that   ;D
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: DougB on March 15, 2006, 06:59 AM
Next up:  "Max Weinberg bothers me" thread
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Ranman on March 15, 2006, 07:58 AM
Next up:  "Max Weinberg bothers me" thread

And then it will be SOOOOOOO ONNNNNNNNN!!!!!
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: NPYYZ on March 15, 2006, 08:16 AM
Next up:  "Max Weinberg bothers me" thread

Or even better a "What's the difference between Max Weinberg and Charlie Watts" thread.     :o
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Tony on March 15, 2006, 09:12 AM
Or even better a "What's the difference between Max Weinberg and Charlie Watts" thread.     :o

About 20 years and 30 million dollars ;D

Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: DougB on March 15, 2006, 11:05 AM
And then it will be SOOOOOOO ONNNNNNNNN!!!!!

For the record, Max DOES bother me.  I cringe when I see him on the Conan show.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Christopher on March 15, 2006, 12:11 PM
For the record, Max DOES bother me.  I cringe when I see him on the Conan show.

Really?  ???

I find that I've gained more respect for him after seeing him on the Conan O'Brian Show. He of course has done some cool stuff with Springsteen, but I hadn't ever seen him stretch out like he does now.

The man can play.

His crossovers and speed are pretty incredible.

I try to make it a practice to find the good in players. Charlie and Max have “good” to spare in my opinion.


Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Mister Acrolite on March 15, 2006, 12:30 PM
Max has some pretty serious back problems, and is usually trussed up pretty tight when he plays. That may make him look stiff, but if you close your eyes, I think you'll find he doesn't sound stiff at all.

Everytime I've seen him with Bruce he has absolutely KILLED.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Jon E on March 16, 2006, 09:26 AM
I believe Max overcame (or adapted to) some pretty serious Carpal Tunnel-type injuries/stress.

I think his playing style has changed from the early days.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: TnT on March 17, 2006, 12:53 AM
I've always loved Charlie Watts. Not because he can play a fast single stroke roll, or has some kind of technical thing that makes me go wow. He's musical. It's so rare sometimes to see a drummer that makes it happen musically it's sad. But I think it isn't a genre thing really. Whatever suits what you're playing. I'm not a big metal fan, but hey I've watched metal players and have appreciated a great player who makes it happen. Ring Starr blows me away sometimes when I listen to Beatles records, the power of 4 booms placed just right in Lucy in the sky with diamonds. The fills Charlie does in Paint it Black. In many of their songs.
Now Phil Rudd, is a huge favourite. I got even more respect for him one night when I played an AC DC tribute at a club. One tune we did was Let There Be Rock. Now lay it down, 2 and 4, 1 and 3 on the kick, real hard, and on like he does, and keep it up, with the kind of intensity he does. Sure anyone can play that simplistic beat. But that's totally missing the point. There's a whole world in the way that groove should played, and as much studying and practicing of technique I've done over the years, that is a skill I have grown to have the deepest respect for, and I spend a lot of playing time thinking about how I'm laying the groove as opposed to what another drummer might think of that last double triplet paradiddle roll I squeaked in in between that last chorus of a pop song.
;)
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Paicey on March 17, 2006, 09:01 PM
He really does look odd while playing and um ya, he is kinda buggy but i really dig his playing.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: DougB on March 20, 2006, 07:14 AM
Okay - does Nigel Ollsen bother anyone?  I like him but I've heard others claim that he was lame.  He's sort of in the same category as Charlie Watts (although not the same style).  He's a good drummer in a great band that has had mammoth success.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: lilblakdak on March 20, 2006, 08:39 AM
I like Nigels work with Spencer Davis. I think most peoples problem with Charlie is that hes not very animated behind the kit. He plays exactly what a Stones songs needs nothing more, and he does thrash around like a monkey while doing it. Its Micks job to be the center of attention not his.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: xdrummer2000 on March 24, 2006, 09:45 PM
I have a lot of respect for Charlie Watts. I don't like his technique (what with the traditional grip and all) very much, but I like how he plays. He keeps a good groove going.

Also, about the whole Phil Rudd thing, I sort of respect him, too. He may be extremely basic to emulate, but at least he does a good job at it.

If there's one drummer I cannot stand, it's Meg White from the white stripes. She's possibly one of the worst drummers I've ever seen. And I didn't say she's one of the worst PRO drummers I've seen, but out of every drummer I've seen. I probably have friends who are better than she is. Sorry, but I just needed to say that.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Mister Acrolite on March 25, 2006, 08:26 AM
I have a lot of respect for Charlie Watts. I don't like his technique (what with the traditional grip and all) very much, but I like how he plays.

Can we assume that you also don't like the techniques of Vinnie Colaiuta, Steve Smith, Buddy Rich, Dave Weckl, and Steve Gadd?
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Dave Heim on March 25, 2006, 08:45 AM
X, sometimes I get a little lost in your contradictions.  Help me out here: you say you like how Charlie plays, and that he keeps a good groove going.  But you don't like his technique (with the traditional grip and all).  

In my mind, one lends itself to the other.  His technique helps him play the groove you like.   Is it just the trad grip that bugs you?
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: xdrummer2000 on March 25, 2006, 12:20 PM
X, sometimes I get a little lost in your contradictions.  Help me out here: you say you like how Charlie plays, and that he keeps a good groove going.  But you don't like his technique (with the traditional grip and all).  

In my mind, one lends itself to the other.  His technique helps him play the groove you like.   Is it just the trad grip that bugs you?

Yup. It's just the traditional grip.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: KevinD on March 27, 2006, 10:30 PM

Also, about the whole Phil Rudd thing, I sort of respect him, too. He may be extremely basic to emulate, but at least he does a good job at it.


Not to single you out, but I notice a lot of drummers here and in general, like to minimize guys like Charlie Watts, Phil Rudd and guys that play like them. I guess it is because they and players like them are known mostly for non-technical playing.  

I often hear these players denigrated and hear talk about how "easy" these guys are to emulate, and often hear cover bands playing their songs, yet I don’t often hear them being “emulated” successfully. As Tony says above, anyone with rudimentary skills can “play” those “beats,” but as he also alludes, there is much more to it than what first meets the ear.

I’m not trying to restart the “less is more” argument either, that is another topic altogether, what I’m saying is a lot of people think that what those guys are playing is so easy to recreate and they often think that they’re doing it but they’re not. As just one piece of proof of that all you have to do is to walk into just about any Guitar Center all across the country and you’ll see ton of drummers sitting there trying to copy those beats (and poorly).

Granted, Phil Rudd, Charlie Watts and players like them are not playing in the vein of Neil Peart, Mike Portnoy, or Dave Weckl  or any of those drummers, but what they are playing has its’ own nuances to it. Those guys, along with Vinnie C. Dennis Chambers and Tony Williams are some of my favorite drummers but it took me a while playing and listening in different situations to understand that some of the simpler guys are no slouches either.

If you’ve ever had to go into a studio and play a simple back beat, with NO variation in time, stroke, attack, etc..for 3 or 4 minutes while the red light is on you would understand that it is no easy task. And those who do it and do it well time and time again are few and far between.  Did you ever see a picture of Frank Beard’s drum head? Two marks, “one for the shuffle and the other for the ‘fo fo’ (4/4),” talk about consistency, and he’s done it well for years.

Take “For Those About to Rock,” I have NEVER seen that played well in a club, to maintain energy without overplaying it or speeding it up is what I consider an accomplishment. Rudd pulls it off live as well.
 
I guess to me this is the telling truth: Over the years, through mutual acquaintances I’ve met a pretty well known bass player who lives near where I grew up. I’ve been fortunate to have had a few conversations with him from time to time about drumming and his favorite drummers. Now this bass player has played with just about EVERY one of my drumming heroes from Buddy Rich, to Bruford, to Bozzio and even Mike Portnoy, he’s also played on tons of records and more than a few hits so anything he says I give a lot of creedence to.

He has his own band that he is taking on a world tour in a few weeks, his favorite drummer, who is pretty well known in his own right is playing with him on this tour. This drummer can really get technical and play some wild stuff but he’s best known for his playing in a great, simple groove,  similar to the stuff that Watts, Beard, or Rudd  have played. But like them, I guess it is his way of playing it that makes him stand out to this bass player who could have any one of the best drummers in the world play with him.

Also, just because a drummer is playing simply to fit the tune (or what the producer told him to which is more likely the case with Phil Rudd) don't think that is only what they’re capable of. If the only cut from John Bonham you’d ever heard was “Kashmir” or the only Steve Gadd cut you’d ever heard was the Bee Gees’ “Stayin’ Alive” would you still have a similar opinion of them?

Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Mister Acrolite on March 27, 2006, 10:32 PM
Great post, Kevin. Totally on-target.
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: DougB on March 28, 2006, 07:51 AM
I concentrate on the simple stuff.  With the type of music I play, no one is interested in a drummer who can play like Neil Peart.  My bandmates want someone who can hold the beat and play some interesting accents, and be tight with the other musicians.  Over the years there have been many complaints about drummers who tried to do things over and above what the music called for, taking away from the purpose of what the band was trying to accomplish.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Chris Whitten on March 29, 2006, 06:17 PM
I'd like to second Kevin's comments. Spot on!
Granted, Phil Rudd, Charlie Watts and players like them are not playing in the vein of Neil Peart, Mike Portnoy, or Dave Weckl  or any of those drummers, but what they are playing has its’ own nuances to it. Those guys, along with Vinnie C. Dennis Chambers and Tony Williams are some of my favorite drummers but it took me a while playing and listening in different situations to understand that some of the simpler guys are no slouches either.
The brilliant thing about some of the guys you've mentioned is that they can play the simple groove if required (Vinnie, Tony and Gadd in particular). I admire simple drummers, I also admire the more technical types. The ones who can do both are in a league of their own.
However, I primarily listen to music (as opposed to drumming).
Therefore, I'd much rather listen to a great song with simple, sympathetic drumming, than a cliche ridden piece of progressive-bull with awesome drumming.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: JeepnDrummer on March 30, 2006, 07:55 AM
When AC/DC came on the scene I disliked their music very much.  I even criticized their drummer because he played silly simple beats.  Of course I was a young, snot-bubble teenager and knew everything.  ;D  

It wasn't until years later that I came to appreciate the groove and what playing for the music meant.  Surprisingly, I'm exposed to a lot of musicians here in S. Korea.  We hang at the same clubs and often jam together.  Most of the drummers have zero groove and over-play to the nth degree.  Sometimes it's really hard to listen to them play.  But I remind myself that I was exactly the same.

When other drummers diss pros like Phil Rudd, Ringo, Charlie or whoever, I quickly dismiss their opinions and can only hope they eventually learn the true value of being able to groove and serve the music.  
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Steve Phelps (Shoeless) on March 30, 2006, 02:01 PM
When AC/DC came on the scene I disliked their music very much.  I even criticized their drummer because he played silly simple beats.  Of course I was a young, snot-bubble teenager and knew everything.  ;D  



I was the same way. You know what got me out of that way of thinking? Seeing Kenny Aronoff in clinic. Here's a guy that can play loud driving beats but is known for (what I considered) simple stuff like John Mellencamp. He said "Sure you can play simple beats like a lot of those songs have. But can you keep it grooving for 5 minutes without variations in tempo or volume. The peolple in that band rely on me to do just that."

Opened my eyes up about a lot of things (especially that snot-bubble.)
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: JeepnDrummer on March 31, 2006, 06:14 AM
I was the same way. You know what got me out of that way of thinking? Seeing Kenny Aronoff in clinic. Here's a guy that can play loud driving beats but is known for (what I considered) simple stuff like John Mellencamp. He said "Sure you can play simple beats like a lot of those songs have. But can you keep it grooving for 5 minutes without variations in tempo or volume. The peolple in that band rely on me to do just that."

Opened my eyes up about a lot of things (especially that snot-bubble.)
lol

It took me time (many years) to mature in the musical sense to finally "get" it....certainly no blinding flash event.  ;D
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Louis Russell on March 31, 2006, 07:58 AM
It took me time (many years) to mature in the musical sense to finally "get" it....certainly no blinding flash event.  ;D

Yes, me too!  It takes a while for fine wine to age.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: SKohl on March 31, 2006, 02:10 PM
Charlie has always played this way.  Sort of a psuedo linear style with his hands.   The hi-hat snare pattern is his trademark and helps make the rolling stones what they are, much the way Ringo's left handed lead on fills made his drumming distinct.  

Try not to play both hands on the snare and hi-hat for a while and groove at the same time, not so easy especially if you're not used to doing it.  

Me, I'm just glad we have individuals with their own style in this increasing vanilla world.

Plus, if I'm still making money playing at 60, I can die happy.

Peace Out! ;D
Title: Re:charlie watts bothers me
Post by: justdave01 on April 15, 2006, 04:40 PM
In an interview he once said that the "missed" hi-hat stroke was how he cleared a path for his left hand. Must've sounded good to him and the band so he just stuck with it. I'm thinking my lucky stars that I've evidently forgeten how many rules we're supposed to play by. What's stiffer, the missing note or someone noticing the "missing" note?
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Conky on April 16, 2006, 03:33 PM
watching him play the halftime show only made it worse.
i just dont get it...

he must look in the mirror every morning and thank his lucky stars


that is all

He's your classic example of a basic drummer that cares nothing about getting better and learning more involved chops.  He keeps the time - makes $$ for the most overrated tunes ever - then goes home.

Takes all kinds m8. :)
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Rylie on April 16, 2006, 05:25 PM
I've tried spead-reading through this thread trying to find someone who's made the simple point that AC/DC would not be AC/DC if Neil Peart (or his genre) was their drummer. Same with the Stones, Beatles, The Band, etc.

It's always been my opinion that a band is only as good (or bad) as it's drummer, and if I'm not mistaken, that's a Paul McCartney quote as well. The argument can and has been made that these "basic" drummers lack flash and fill-skills, but their talent and musical ingenuity, specifically knowing when to lay off and keep the groove going,  is at the heart of those bands appeal. For instance, if Phil Rudd complicated his fills or changed his style so he would be "noticed" and held in high regard by drumming critics, it would be like Whitney Houston singing Big Balls. She can sing (without the crack pipe in her mouth), but it would sound silly.
Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Ryan Culberson on April 16, 2006, 05:39 PM
He's your classic example of a basic drummer that cares nothing about getting better and learning more involved chops.  He keeps the time - makes $$ for the most overrated tunes ever - then goes home.

Takes all kinds m8. :)

Have you personally spent time with Charlie Watts?  I'm betting that the answer is NO.  Just for giggles, I would like a DETAILED explanation of WHY you think the way you do.  What is the criteria you used to arrive at your assumption?  Please, enlighten me!!!!!   ::)  

Call me crazy,  but boldly stating that one of the most enduring names in music "cares nothing about getting better and learning more involved chops" is pure speculation on your part and appears to be indicitive of some maturity issues.  I think there's a name for this...  

"Charlie Envy!"  

Title: charlie watts bothers me
Post by: Mark Counts on April 16, 2006, 07:34 PM
Hey Ryno,

I agree with you.  I can't believe this thread is still going strong.
There probably isn't many drummers that have stood the test of time like Charlie Watts.  No, he is not my favorite drummer and niether is some of the drummers that have made it big, but it is what it is.  He has played with one of the most popular bands in the world and he is very solid, just like Ringo is very solid. There is no since in arguing about it anymore.  He and Ringo both made it big time and have been big time for years.
I wish I could say that I had done even a small percentage of big time stuff as either one of them.  No one can take that away from them. My two cents!!!!!
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