Topic: Stupid Question  (Read 6242 times)

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fattmeat

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Stupid Question
« on: August 11, 2002, 10:44 AM »
Just wondering, what's the difference between a regular set and a fusion set?

Carn

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2002, 11:07 AM »
most "regular" or "standard" 5 piece sets have 12-13-16 as tom sizes, and a 22x18 bassdrum, and fusion has 10-12-14, with a 20x18 bassdrum

exact depth differ, but i think this is a general picture.



AndyDierker

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2002, 02:09 PM »
Actually, Carn, I think that's a little off. Most fusion sets have a 22x18 bass drum, and most standard sets have a 22x16 inch bass drum. I think the fusion-ers get a bigger kick.

In one of my Tama booklets it says that's the pairing most drummers prefer now-a-days - massive thump and smaller toms.

Not tryin' to split hairs. :)

Offline Mark Schlipper

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2002, 02:19 PM »
thats what ive seen andy.  

rock/standard = 12, 13, 16, 22
jazz/studio = 10, 12, 14, 20
fusion (being a blend of jazz and rock :)) = 10, 12, 14, 22

its all marketing and therefore completely arbitrary but those are the "norms"
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Carn

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2002, 02:54 PM »
oh well, i have the "standard" swingstar 5 piece, with a 22x18 bass.....my friend has a fusion yamaha power V, with 20x16 bass, so i thought it was like that in general

fattmeat

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2002, 06:39 PM »
Mine has a 20" bass and 10,12,14 toms

Offline Mark Schlipper

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2002, 09:24 PM »
like i said, arbitrary :)  my numbers are averages based on what ive seen on musicians friend etc.
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Offline Bart Elliott

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Clarification
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2002, 09:52 PM »
I've never, ever heard a kit with a 22 inch kick referred to as a "fusion kit".  That that were true, then that would mean every time I choose to NOT use my 16 inch floor tom, that my kit would go from a "standard" kit to a "fusion" kit.

Check your catalogs with various manufactures. I don't know how consistent they are, but I can tell you as a former drum shop owner that a "fusion kit" includes a 20 inch kick drum (depth is unimportant) with small tom sizes such as 10, 12, 14 or 8, 10, 12, etc. The toms are mounted and the 14 inch tom would NOT be a 14x14 floor tom, but rather a mounted 14 inch tom.

It's the 20 inch kick drum and small tom sizes that give a kit the title of being a "fusion" kit. Depth of shell has nothing to do with the title ... just diameter ... so the kick drum could be 20x14, 20x16 or 20x18.

Oh ... and by the way ... there is no such thing as a "stupid question" ... especially not here at the Drummer Cafe. We all want to grow and learn ... and we all have to start somewhere!

Offline Mark Schlipper

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2002, 12:30 AM »
disclaimer: im not trying to be argumentative.  im bored and online so i thought id look this stuff up.  

im 100% with bart on the tom thing.  i went to a few manufacturers websites and very few of them have set config charts (mapex and taye did, both offer 20 or 22 as fusion, taye also does a 24) and i will by no means call musicians friend the gospel of drums.  but do a search for fusion on thier site.  

kaces bag set - 20
beato bag set - n/a
nomad case set - 22
another kaces bag set - 22
skb case set - 22
tama swingstar - n/a
gretsch catalina - 22
yamaha yd - 22
premier cabria - 22
pearl forum - 22
pearl export - 22
tama rockstar - 22
yamaha stage custom - 22
mapex pro m - n/a (but thier site offered 20 or 22 as "fusion")
sonor force 3001 - 22
tama star classic preformer - 22
premier artist maple - 22
sonor s-class - 18 in one listing (but the pic doesnt match the desciption) and 22 or 20 in another
pearl masters birch - n/a
yamaha birch custom - 20

the general consensus is fusion = 22 with the occasional 20" option.



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Skinbasher

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2002, 02:04 AM »
My old Yamaha kit came in Rock/Standard sizes, 12, 13, 16 and 22" Bass drum. The new one i bought recently (also Yamaha), i specified fusion sizes which were 10, 12, 14 (rack tom) and 20" Bass drum. My understanding was that this was the case with all Fusion and Standard kits.

Offline Bart Elliott

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2002, 06:52 AM »
Well ... if manufactures are NOW calling "fusion" kits any drumkit that has small toms and ANY sized kick drum ... well, they are idiots.  ;)

Personally I think that if they are doing this ... they are just trying to cash in on the term "fusion" because it's become so popular.

I still stand by my original post ... that "fusion" means that it has a 20 inch kick drum. Just because a company allows you to interchange the kick drum with a 22 inch doesn't mean that it's still a "fusion" kit ... they are merely trying to let the buyer know that they can switch out sizes ... for the person that wants a bigger kick drum, but also wants "even sized" toms such as the 10, 12, 14.

Bottom Line: who cares what they call it. Just buy the sizes that you like and want! It's nothing more than a label and is totally subjective. Just like the definition of what a soprano snare is versus a piccolo snare. The labels are there ONLY to bring clarity to the product without having get into a full description. Obviously the labels are NOT working ... and we all still have to discuss what the heck it includes ... all because there is no standard by which to judge by.

Mark563, you're not being argumentative, you are merely expressing you view, opinion, and sighting the sources to back up your claim. To me, this is wisdom on your part ... and I wish more people would do what you've done.

Offline Mark Schlipper

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2002, 09:12 AM »

Mark563, you're not being argumentative, you are merely expressing you view, opinion, and sighting the sources to back up your claim. To me, this is wisdom on your part ... and I wish more people would do what you've done.

the best part is, im actually pretty indifferent to the whole thing since i feel the same way you do.  its just marketing and labeling for convenience.  but since the original question was "whats the difference"  i thought id mention what ive seen retailers do  it wasnt anything as deep as my view or opinion :)  



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Offline Dave Sharma

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2002, 12:07 PM »
interesting... I always thought fusion sets came standard with curly mullets and 32nd notes...  

didn't know it was about tom sizes.  go figure!

Offline Mark Schlipper

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2002, 01:20 PM »
interesting... I always thought fusion sets came standard with curly mullets and 32nd notes...  

didn't know it was about tom sizes.  go figure!

id love to see billy cobham with a mullet!
Making bad art.  Saying stupid things.  Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here.

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paul

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2002, 03:32 PM »
Most of the fusion drummers I've seen are playing big sets.  Think Steve Smith or Gene Lake.  

Offline Sean Welch

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2002, 04:29 PM »
Another question related to this topic - what is the difference between the two (fusion/standard) from a newbie's point of view?  For instance, if I plan to play more rock than jazz type stuff, would I be disappointed in the long run with a 'fusion' set?

Is the tonal 'feel' of the kit that much different or is it mostly a volume thing?
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Offline Bart Elliott

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2002, 07:10 PM »
Do you think the term "fusion" kit comes from fusion drummers preferring smaller, lower volume kits than rockers?  I always presumed the term "fusion kit" referred to drummers who played fusion (ie: jazz/rock) music.

Yes, I believe so. The fusion kit is supposed to be a cross between a standard rock kit and a jazz kit. When the term "fusion" was applied to drumkits ... the most jazz players were using 18 inch kick drums, and most rock players were using 22 inch kick drums. The 20 inch split the difference between the two ... allowing the drummer to feel like they could cover rock as well as jazz genres.

fattmeat

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2002, 08:24 PM »
When I went to the shop to buy the set, the guy asked what kind of music I'd be playing. I told him older rock, country, and maybe some heavier stuff here and there. Sonor Force 2001 was one of the choices he offered. I really wanted something versatile. Oh, and my 14" tom is a floor tom, not mounted. I agree with you guys. I figured it was just some marketing ploy.

Offline Daddy0

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2002, 07:59 PM »
It's not the kit that makes it rock, jazz or fusion, it's what you play!!!

AndyDierker

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Re:Stupid Question
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2002, 02:25 AM »
I would love to agree, but you try to get anything remotely "jazzy" out of my 16x16 floor tom. Grrrr.  ;)

 

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