Billy Ward's article on MD last issue

[Chris Whitten]

I was going to be polite and not say anything  ;D , but then Bart chipped in.
Yeah, I use Evans heads and love them tuned low. I always have the resos medium pitched and tension my batters to taste (often very low).
It's just the bottom head lower than top head concept I can't get to work.
:-[

[felix]

Hell, I don't care.  It's impolite not to say something.  I just go with what I know.  Evans are probably the best heads on the planet for low tunas for all I know- you won't see/hear them on my drums and you won't see me in modern drummer magazine.   So that's that.

[felix]

Well, actually you can hear them on my drums.  I did one recording with clear G2's and I played well enough to keep the track but tossed the heads.  

[Bart Elliott]

I think we are missing the fact that tuning, regardless of which drumheads you use, is going to be different on every drum ... especially between brands.

Perhaps EVANS don't work with loose tuning on ____ drumkits. I don't know ... just stating that Billy does use EVANS drumheads and plays DW drums, and it works for him.

[James Walker]

FWIW - I still haven't gotten that particular snare drum tuned with the snare head lower in pitch than the batter head - just lower than it used to be.

[rayvonr]

Billy does use Evans heads....but I think Bart will agree...none of his tom heads was tuned low....they had a relatively high pitch. I don't know how the bottom heads were tuned, but I suspect they were lower than the top. I've talked to friends in Nashville here who do a lot of sessions and they
generally seem to tune the bottom heads even or lower than the top. I've always tuned the bottom higher for more projection, but the other way may give it more punch! Bart I'll see you at pasic this afternoon! Thanks

[Chris Whitten]

I think we are missing the fact that tuning, regardless of which drumheads you use, is going to be different on every drum ... especially between brands.

Also between different drummers and their playing styles.
I've sat in on one particular guys' kit at a soundcheck and thought man these drums are tubs of sludge, but when he plays them they sound GREAT.  ::)

[dannydrumperc]

Also between different drummers and their playing styles.
I've sat in on one particular guys' kit at a soundcheck and thought man these drums are tubs of sludge, but when he plays them they sound GREAT.  ::)

... and the acoustics of the room, and where in that room are the drums placed (corners, walls, etc...).

Back to our topic:

I tried last night the snares thing again and ended tightening the bottom head even more than before because of excessive buzz. The apparent reasons for the buzzing were:
room acoustics
sympathetic vibrations from the other drums
42-strands snares

Something interesting was that the 3x13 wood piccolo (20-strands) buzzed a lot less (almost nothing) than the 6.5x14 steel. Not big difference between heads or tuning.

I re-tuned the toms a little bit higher (because of the snares buzzing problem). Left them still low and punchy, but now they have a more defined tone. Tried to set the relative pitch between the batter and resonant to a 1.5 tones interval. The toms are about a third between each other, forming a mayor triad. Have Zero-rings on them for focusing the tone.

Ill test them this weekend to let you know.

[Bart Elliott]

I tried last night the snares thing again and ended tightening the bottom head even more than before because of excessive buzz. The apparent reasons for the buzzing were:
room acoustics
sympathetic vibrations from the other drums
42-strands snares

Something interesting was that the 3x13 wood piccolo (20-strands) buzzed a lot less (almost nothing) than the 6.5x14 steel. Not big difference between heads or tuning.

If you are not using strap tape with your 42-strand snare wires, that may be the reason you are getting excessive buzz. Using standard snare string doesn't allow the 42-strand wires to lay on the snare head evenly.

Try using the strap tape or similar with your 42-strand if you haven't done so already.

[dannydrumperc]

Hi Bart! :)

Thanks for the suggestion. Im using the plastic strap that came with it. Im thinking about buying some gross ribbon as James have suggested in some threads.

[jokerjkny]

If you are not using strap tape with your 42-strand snare wires, that may be the reason you are getting excessive buzz. Using standard snare string doesn't allow the 42-strand wires to lay on the snare head evenly.

Try using the strap tape or similar with your 42-strand if you haven't done so already.

really?

interesting.  anyone else find this true?

[Stewart Manley]

interesting.  anyone else find this true?

Dunno yet. I've just yesterday given into the peer pressure and ordered a 42-strander, and will press Mrs Moose for some grosgrain from her capacious sewing box when it arrives.

[sigh]

Let's face it, I'm just as credulous as hell...

[Mister Acrolite]

I've never noticed any sonic difference between straps and cord. I've use aircraft cable for snare cord a lot, but have straps on most of my drums now.

That said, I've never done any experiments or A/B testing - I've just never encountered a buzzing problem that I couldn't work around through tuning or snare tension adjustments.

[felix]

I guess I'm in the "I don't know" boat about straps vs. cord thing for wires, cause by the time I've gotten my new wires and cord adjusted *whether it's cords, strapping, fishing line or shoelaces even*, I'm ready to play, buzzing or not.  I am indeed going to try the grosgrain when I find it and I am trying out my 30's again for the "rock" snare... I also have kept the 42's (I'm pretty sure) so you never know.  Gotta keep it fresh.

[James Walker]

OK, Jim's responding to a snare wire question...sit back, put your feet up, smoke 'em if you got 'em - this could take a while...  ::)

If you are not using strap tape with your 42-strand snare wires, that may be the reason you are getting excessive buzz. Using standard snare string doesn't allow the 42-strand wires to lay on the snare head evenly.

really?

interesting.  anyone else find this true?

Consistently, and not just with 42s.

However, I'd make a slight change to what Bart wrote:

"...to lay as snugly against the snare side head."  (I know - "picky, picky, picky.")

I've noticed consistently that the snare response is cleaner ("drier") when using ribbon or straps instead of cord.  Not necessarily better or worse, just different.  I don't know if it's a matter of ribbon being thinner than the snare cords, or that it provides a slight bit of muffling by covering a slightly greater amount of the reso head's surface, or both, but I've found there to be a difference.  Which is better?  It depends upon the drum, the wires, the sound you want, the tuning you're using, the heads you're using.  I tried an Evans 200 on one drum, and the snare response and sympathetic vibrations were noticeably greater than when I put a 300 back on it.

Even with 42s tho, there can be exceptions.  I've got 42s on my Yamaha 5.5x14 COS, but I've also got an HD Dry head on that drum to cut out the off-the-map ringing that the Yammy steel shell offers.  I put the 42s on with snare cords long before I ever heard of grosgrain ribbon, and they sound fine - no need to change, IMHO.

I don't think it's my imagination, or simply my OCD nature when it comes to snare drums.  Witness the number of snare wire manufacturers (Grover and Canopus come to mind) who include both mylar straps and snare cord when they package their snare wires for sale.  Also, witness the threads here in the past where Acrolite owners have stated the need to replace the older throwoff with a new, strap-friendly P85, in order to use 42s on an Acro.

It's not always better or worse, but it's one of many tools you can use in fine-tuning your drum's sound and response.  If you're getting excessive buzz and fuzziness from your 42s, but you want to keep that full snare sound, switching over to grosgrain may help to focus your snare wire response.  Similarly, if you've got straps, and your snare sound is just a little dry for your tastes (and if adjusting the tension doesn't solve the problem for you), try using cord instead.

Now, even I'm not a-r enough to notice any difference between grosgrain ribbon or mylar straps.  Mylar always slips whenever I use it with my wires, which is why I keep referring to grosgrain instead.

[dannydrumperc]

Other thing that I'll check today is the alignment of the snare wires as soon as I get home. Checked that yesterday and seemed alright, but that may be the cause of the problem. The straps should lay perpendicular to the bottom rim no matter if the drum is tilted. The buzzing may be because the snares arent parallel to the bottom head.

Oh, no! I hijacked my own thread! :-[

[JeepnDrummer]

I used cord with the 42-strand wires on my Acrolite and it sound mushy.  Replaced the strainer w/ a P85 and the cord with strap and problem solved....for me.

[DoubleC]

I used cord with the 42-strand wires on my Acrolite and it sound mushy.  Replaced the strainer w/ a P85 and the cord with strap and problem solved....for me.

JeepnDrummer:
I have a P85 on my keystone Acro but the butt plate only takes cord.  Did you replace the butt plate too or did you use strap on one end and cord on the other end?

dc

[felix]

yes you have to replace the butt plate.  I think it's called a P-30 if IIRC.  Bolts right on.

[James Walker]

What am I missing regarding the butt plate?  

I've seen the old, old, OLD style butt plates, with about a dozen holes on it to thread gut snares through - there was one on my old Universal brass snare drum.  However, I didn't know they used those on Acrolites.  All the Acrolites I've seen or owned, had butt plates that would accept straps or grosgrain without skipping a beat.  Same design as the current model.

BTW, I think that current Ludwig butt plate is number P32...