Speak Up or Shut Up?

[KevinD]

Usually it's just like "whatever" I'm playing out and you aren't.

Yup, I think the same way...who am I to criticize someone who is up on stage that I usually paid $$ to see... They are up there and I'm in my spectator seat eating popcorn or whatever.

Conversely, when I'm up on stage I think the same way.

BTW Felix I seriously doubt you "stink" at any level, I think, as Mr. A says that we all have our own level of "suck", I'm guessing that yours is pretty high.

[glamrocker]

well im NOT blowing off because I DID say that I didnt care a jot if they refuse to take advice..also the example WAS only an example... I DO refer to advice from strangers when i say unsolicited because I myself have gained much in my early years AND still do from people comming over and saying "hey! have you tried doing it THIS way?"  I dont get offended..the way I see it is that if some stranger offers advice then he has a GENUINE desire to help out a fellow drummer...If he is one of those KNOW IT ALL types then you tend to find that those kind keep quiet and just stand smugly in a corner telling all the Non drummers in his company haw HE could play it much better..... sorry if I sounded like I was spitting my dummy out.. I didnt mean it to!    

[glamrocker]

I think some people are confusing "slagging off"  or "criticism"  with Advice

[Bart Elliott]

I think some people are confusing "slagging off"  or "criticism"  with Advice

Yes ... YOU! LOL

Your comment about people standing in the corner telling everyone he's better ... that's being CRITICAL and JUDGMENTAL.

I guess those who don't mind giving unsolicited advice are also the ones who don't mind giving it ... and are also the ones that don't see a problem with it either way.

One final note on this ... those of you who live in the UK ... the way you speak to people, on forums and in person, is very different than here in the USA. This is something I learned VERY quickly when I started this forum over three years ago. In fact, the times we had the most problems in communication has been between a UK and USA member ... and I say that from experience.

All that to say, I need to consider that what I feel is proper social ettiquette, what I mean is for here in the USA.  8)

[Marcos]

Scheming Demon, on a more serious level than my previous comment my vote is Shut Up.

I think your original wording was clearly referring to a person unknown to yourself. It is obvious to me that if you "know" the person, you will "know" ahead of time if to speak up or shut up, right?.

[Bart Elliott]

Scheming Demon, on a more serious level than my previous comment my vote is Shut Up.

I think your original wording was clearly referring to a person unknown to yourself. It is obvious to me that if you "know" the person, you will "know" ahead of time if to speak up or shut up, right?.

And that ladies and gentlemen is probably the best (and shortest) answer to the question.

[altken2004]

One final note on this ... those of you who live in the UK ... the way you speak to people, on forums and in person, is very different than here in the USA.

Ha ha, yes so true.  Two countries separated by a common language!  Who said that?  in the UK we tend to be more, er, direct.

On the topic in question, a good bit of advice I received.

You can't help someone unless you ask them what they want, otherwise you are just helping yourself.

Hope that translates!!

[DrummerMom]

I had an issue come up at the first practice for Church praise band.

there were two other drummers (both guys) and the Music Minister wanted all three of us to take turns playing Meant to Live by SwitchFoot. This was an audition so to speak.

He gave us the Music that he got off of the internet.
http://www.cmdrumstudios.com/SwitchfootMeantToLive_01.pdf]http://www.cmdrumstudios.com/SwitchfootMeantToLive_01.pdf

He gave us 10 minutes to look it over. Then we had to play with the band.

I offered to go first and  they kept interrupting while I was playing saying I was playing it wrong.  The other two drummers couldn't read Music.  So the Music Minister told them both to be quiet because I did play it correctly.

[glamrocker]

in the mean time...please keep your unsolicited advise comm
iong if you are at one of my gigs.. cos you never know ..it MAY just make all the difference to my drumming and I will be forever gratefull for that.  you see?..you MAY come out with some advise on something that I would NEVER have though to ask..or help me with a problem I never knew I had... so I thank you in advance... all suggestions welcome!!!

[Mister Acrolite]

I hope you're equally receptive to advice you receive online. Or is that only the case at your gigs?

[altken2004]

Hmmm.  Well, giving unsolicited advice may be a waste of time, but should you deny advice if someone wants it?  I don't think an internet  forum is the best place for such an exchange, since you  only see abot 5% of the person you are talking to.  My observation would be that people who have been taught to play are usually more confident, and less defensive,  than people who were not.

[Chris Whitten]

FWIW my 2c.
I've been lucky enough to work with a couple of extremely experienced and successful drummers in the past. None of them have given me pointers on anything I was doing wrong (and I have plenty of room for improvement). They all seemed to focus on complimenting me on some area they considered I had made good progress with.
This has encouraged me to keep working hard at my craft.
In contrast, a few record producers I've encountered, who've done nothing but pick holes in my playing, have wrecked my confidence and left me wondering if I should hang up my sticks for good. Maybe it's just my personality.
Having said all that......
I'm not about to spend time with a well known drummer and fail to pick their brains (or simply watch them and take as much in as possible) for ways I can improve my playing.  ;)

[felix]

I would have told those producers to suck an egg.

[altken2004]

I would have told those producers to suck an egg.

Well, I would have used a word that rhymes with suck.

[Chris Whitten]

I would have told those producers to suck an egg.

You probably wouldn't have worked again.  :'(
Seriously though, in those situations the only solution is to make the best out of a bad job.
Incidentally, I've heard well known producers slamming the abilities of some of the top session players in the past.
I guess it goes with the territory. This is a highly competitive business...................based on subjective opinions.  ???

[felix]

Somehow I figured you had to take it.  Still a drag.  I'd rather hear it from a producer than a drunk in a bar, who I probably wouldn't even say "go suck an egg" if they didn't like my playing.  That's a good way to get a knuckle sandwich.

We had a bad experience with a big name producer a few years ago.  Not all of them are as cool as Tom Dowd was.

[altken2004]

You probably wouldn't have worked again.

Unsolicited advice

Seriously though, in those situations the only solution is to make the best out of a bad job.

Ubnsolicited advice

Incidentally, I've heard well known producers slamming the abilities of some of the top session players in the past.

Useful Information

I guess it goes with the territory. This is a highly competitive business...................based on subjective opinions.  

Unsolicited advice

[felix]

Are there any producers even left anymore?  

[Bart Elliott]

You probably wouldn't have worked again.
Unsolicited advice

Seriously though, in those situations the only solution is to make the best out of a bad job.
Ubnsolicited advice

Incidentally, I've heard well known producers slamming the abilities of some of the top session players in the past.
Useful Information

I guess it goes with the territory. This is a highly competitive business...................based on subjective opinions.  
Unsolicited advice

You just don't get it bro.  :-\
And what you've labeled in your post as "unsolicited advice" is not even advice but a comment based on your opinion. You are looking at "advice" as communicating information. That is NOT the definition we are using here. When discussing about "unsolicited advice", the use of the word "advice" means an opinion about what should be done about a situation or problem ... like you are counselling someone. Make sense?

Once an exchange has begun, making comments and giving opinion is no longer unsolicited advice.

"Unsolicited" means that you are not looking for or requesting; it's unsought.

No wonder we don't see eye to eye ... the definition of the very term and words being used is skewed.

If you start posting on a forum ... that is a signal that you are opening a conversation. If you start talking about a particular topic or subject, then the conversation can grow to the point that someone may give you advice or an opinion. Although it's not solicited, it's very different because you have begun a dialogue with that individual.

The grievance occurs when you have not opened a dialogue with an individual who proceeds to give you their advice or opinion. This is when the unsolicited advice is ... well, wrong ... at least for me it is. If we are talking about something and I share that I am struggling or lacking in some manner, then I have opened the dialogue that would possibly allow for your opinion or advice. In this case it may not be viewed as unsolicited.

Some of you are taking this "unsolicited advice" and just running away with it ... making it as though anyone who doesn't want unsolicited advice must also not want any kind of dialogue regardless of the topic or situation. This is simply not the case. The appropriateness of the "advice" that is not specifically "solicited" is directly proportionate to the level of the dialogue, the relationship of those communicating, and the subject matter.

Whew!

[Stewart Manley]

...should you deny advice if someone wants it?

No. In that case, if they've made it clear they "want it" then it's not unsolicited.

[snip] Unsolicited advice
[snip] Unsolicited advice
[snip] Unsolicited advice

Not unsolicted. Anyone taking part in this thread has implicitly indicated that they are soliciting information (or advice, if you will).

The bottom line is this: to be able to receive and use information, you have to be in a specific mental place. The place you're in when you want and are ready to find something out. The place you're in when you open a factual book, watch a documentary, put on a teaching video, go to a clinic, or take part in a discussion (online or offline). Unless you see something that indicates that someone is in that place, you keep it to yourself. And someone who's just come offstage is very, very unlikely to be in that place. They'll be thinking about how that new song went, what's involved in tearing down, wondering where the car keys are, finding that drink they've been denying themselves all night, looking for the bathroom - anything but picking up some hints and tips on that quad fill they failed to nail.