Topic: Are drummers kinda dense?  (Read 13085 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Paicey

  • Guest
Are drummers kinda dense?
« on: October 02, 2005, 05:51 PM »
Guitar players seem so involved in just the right axe
drummers for the most part will pound on anything.

To many drummers notice no difference between birch and maple.
Guitar players agonize over ash vs alder.

guitar players search for just the right sounding amp.
drummers put whatever head is on sale on their kits.

Drummers use whatever stick is around
guitar players are finicky about the slightest variation in pick thickness.

You know where im going with this. I honestly think drummers as a rule seem to be the most uninformed members musically. I think the old joke that the band has 4 musicians and a drummer isnt such a joke sometimes. Relax guys im with you but do any of you notice this?.  

Offline Mister Acrolite

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 5936
  • I'm not bald; I'm aerodynamic.
    • k e i t h c r o n i n . c o m
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2005, 06:06 PM »
Guess it depends on who you hang out with.

Hit on 2. Repeat on 4.
(instructions found written on Mr. A's snare drum)

Ranman

  • Guest
Re:Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2005, 07:24 PM »
I don't understand the question!

xXxBURYyourDEADxXx

  • Guest
Re:Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2005, 07:41 PM »
i think its oppisite. drummer also spend  200-300 on a single cymbal.

serious drummer take pride and put alot money into there set up

i think ur thinking of less serious drummers. the Drummer u described wouldnt say " drumming is life "

idk sorry if that dnt make sense, thats the only response i could get from that post. ha


Offline Bart Elliott

  • Chef de Cuisine
  • Posts: 15092
  • Founder & owner of DrummerCafe.com
    • bartelliott
    • bartelliott
    • w w w . B a r t E l l i o t t . c o m
Re:Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2005, 07:45 PM »
I don't understand the question!

That's because you are a drummer!   ;D ROFL


Paicey, I disagree with the premise. I'm nothing like that ... and my drumming friends, peers and colleagues are nothing like that.

You must be hanging out with interesting drummers.

felix

  • Guest
Re:Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2005, 07:46 PM »
I disagree.  

I'm very particular about my ever evolving sound.  You have NO idea.

I don't have a whole lot of drummer friends, but the dudes I know are very particular about heads, drum manufacturers and some even with the wood.

So drummers aren't dense I would say unless of course you hang out with dense drummers.  Maybe you feel dense about drums?  That's ok, the learning never stops.  Just keep an open mind.  Try to quantify what you learn.

Ranman

  • Guest
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2005, 07:54 PM »
Quote
That's because you are a drummer!   ROFL

 ;) I knew someone would get that!

Offline vexen

  • Bronze Member
  • Posts: 187
    • Patrick Hassani
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2005, 08:45 PM »
I would have to agree with some of the others and say that you only hear that from drummers who dont take it seriously or are new to the scene. One thing i've noticed is that a LOT of people want to play drums, and so i think a lot of the drummers out there are just people who bought a kit and ended up not liking it, but they still call themselves drummers. Or at least it seems that way to me as i know 3 or 4 drummers at my school that think B8's are the best cymbals around and have no idea who even Buddy Rich is.

Another reason i think drummers will put the cheapest head on, or use whatever stick is because if you think about it, you want to go buy a top of the line guitar and top of the line cab and head as a guitarist or bassist, you spend $2,000 on each piece, which is only $6,000 in total. Then when they need to replace strings guitars are like 5 bucks and bass' are about 40. Picks are 25 cents. Theres only a few big buys and you're done.

Now look at the drummers. You buy the top of the line kit, you will probably have to spend $3,000 on just the toms.  I'd say the average price for a good snare would be about $300. Chances are that you then have to replace heads. Be willing to drop about $300. Now, you have equipment. A good pedal is a good $150, $300 if you use double pedal. The snare stand is a good $50, if not more. Now you have to worry about the cymbals. The hi-hat stand is another $150. The total so far is $4,100. Then you have cymbal cost. Depending on how many cymbals and what brand you like, you will have to think about cost. In my experience a good cymbal costs at least $200.  As long as you buy more than 4 cymbals, you have bought more than the guitarist did. Then for each cymbal you need a stand, which costs at least $50 for EACH. Those are just stands that will hodl the cymbal, nothing fancy. Now you think about that, thats minimal stuff for a drummer. Most every drummer i respect has close to 10 cymbals they use. From there you have to think about stick replacement, whichi f you use nylon tip, as i do, cost 6 bucks a pair. I break a pair probably weekly. Thats 24 bucks a month on just sticks.  Oh yea i almost forgot the throne, expect a good $150.  That leaves the cost at over $6500 bucks. Not including the expense of always having to replace everything.  That to a lot of people isnt even close to what they have or will spend.

In summary, drums are ridiculously expensive. Thats why a lot of people worry most about cost.

In response to pounding on anything that makes noise. Thats only because we don't like to be restricted to 22 frets or anything of that sort. Its more fun to find a trashcan lid that matches a song.

Thats just how i see it.
Out of the place of flowers I come, Priest of the Sunset, Lord of the Twilight.

Offline James Walker

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 3267
    • malletjazz
    • www.malletjazz.com
Re:Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2005, 09:09 PM »
Paicey, I disagree with the premise.

+1

Quote
I'm nothing like that ... and my drumming friends, peers and colleagues are nothing like that.

+1

Quote
You must be hanging out with interesting drummers.

Bart, is that akin to the Chinese curse, "May you live in 'interesting' times"?  ;D
"I played with Holdsworth, Fripp, and Belew...I wish we drummers could play that differently. Drummers are starting to homogenize into the same guy, which frightens me." - Bill Bruford

Offline Rick

  • Copper Member
  • Posts: 56
  • lLrr
    • The Classifieds
Re:Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2005, 01:05 AM »
I know a few guitarists who don't care, and wouldn't know the difference between most of the things you have listed. This is from lack of knowledge and experience. This can apply to almost anything.
...::..::::..::::..::::..::::....

Offline Jon E

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 3594
  • Gaaaah!
    • Things Very Special
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2005, 12:34 PM »
Paicey, you'll have to speak for yourself on this on.   There are many drummers and guitarists that can make whatever they're playing sound amazing!

So. I'll have be in the "disagree" category too (for the most part).

PS: I consider myself fairly well informed about drums/drumming (I ought to be, I've been doing it for 30+ years!).  I also often buy whatever head is on sale, don't care about maple or birch, can play with just about anything, and just about any drum brand is OK for for me.

Offline smoggrocks

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 2522
  • Is there another word for synonym?
    • Meet the Fearsome Foursome
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2005, 04:29 PM »
i wouldn't classify people who spend more dough on gear as smarter or more enlightened, just more able to spare some cash.

i've met some fantastically stupid drummers, guitarists, bassists and pianists. some could play, some couldn't. there were some stupid ones who sounded great but couldn't maintain a life, others who were geniuses but couldn't play... you get the idea.

i do think drummers have earned something of an unfair reputation for being dumb just because we're perceived as being wilder for hitting things, and lots of times when we're in the zone, we make stupid faces.

but really - the dumb ones are the singers.

doh! :P
The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed.

mapexdrummer1234

  • Guest
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2005, 07:52 PM »
i think its that we our instrument is one where there are multiple ways to acheive sound, and we aren't as PICKY!(jk) But I know that if I had my preferrence, I would always use zildjian, mapex, remo, and vic firth stuff and gibraltar hardware, but its a lot harder for us to move our instrument, Guitarists can move there instrument really easily, we are more used to adapting.

Offline Chip Donaho

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 3647
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2005, 08:24 PM »
when we're in the zone, we make stupid faces.

but really - the dumb ones are the singers.

doh! :P
I love that one....   ;D
Craviotto-DW-Mapex-Slingerland
Paiste-Zildjian
"When you quit learning you start dying."-My Grandfather

drumwild

  • Guest
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2005, 12:31 AM »
I honestly think drummers as a rule seem to be the most uninformed members musically.

It is painfully obvious that you were not a Percussion Arts major at a university.

Sure, the guitarist can take his guitar courses, ear training, and music theory.

The Percussion Arts major takes string bass, marimba, piano, drum courses, ear training, music theory, and so on. On top of that, I piled on trumpet and saxophone. You could call me "just a drummer" without knowing that I played in the marimba ensemble, soloed The Creston (2nd Movement) played string bass in the Muncie Symphony Orchestra, and kicked it on the traps when Count Basie came into town.

Gosh, now that I look back, I WAS musically uninformed! </sarcasm>

Paicey, just because YOU are a slacker who buys cheap heads and plays whatever piece of crap is lying around, don't assume everyone else is taking your path. I can tell others here are being somewhat "PC" here and not calling a spade a spade. But trust me when I tell ya that they're  laughing at you, not with you.

I take that back. You're NOT the drummer I mentioned in the previous paragraph. You are a guitarist posing as a drummer.

Offline Scott

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 531
    • Scott Miles
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2005, 09:32 AM »
Paicey,

How are you forming this opinion?  Are these the kind of players you're coming in contact with?  If so, then I have to ask:  Do they play good and sound good?  If they DO, then I guarantee you that they are the furthest thing from "uninformed" about drumming.  They might just be trying to play themselves off or create some kind of image like they just don't care, but they certainly DO care.  If they DON'T play good and/or sound good, well, then there's your answer...   :)

I would relate this to a drummer who says they NEVER practice, but they play with world-class chops.  Example?  Buddy Rich.  Yeah, Buddy....we believe that you NEVER practiced... ;)  

DRWM

  • Guest
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2005, 11:42 AM »
Guitar players seem so involved in just the right axe
drummers for the most part will pound on anything.

To many drummers notice no difference between birch and maple.
Guitar players agonize over ash vs alder.

guitar players search for just the right sounding amp.
drummers put whatever head is on sale on their kits.

Drummers use whatever stick is around
guitar players are finicky about the slightest variation in pick thickness.

You know where im going with this. I honestly think drummers as a rule seem to be the most uninformed members musically. I think the old joke that the band has 4 musicians and a drummer isnt such a joke sometimes. Relax guys im with you but do any of you notice this?.  

WHAT!?!  ???

Offline Tony

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 2193
  • Art is the expression of the self.
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2005, 12:18 PM »
I'll keep this in mind tonight at practice when I sit behind my $3000 drumset complimented by the $900 in cymbals, $600 in hardware, $100's in misc toys.

Of course, like Smog says, it may be a matter of $ vs. brains, but I'll take you on in a debate in any issue, anywhere, anytime.  

In all seriousness, I was curious to know if you've actually read any of the posts in the following threads:

 http://community.drummercafe.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=15381]http://community.drummercafe.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=15381

 http://community.drummercafe.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=15360]http://community.drummercafe.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=15360

 http://community.drummercafe.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=15329]http://community.drummercafe.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=15329

These are just 3 from the front page of the equipment section of this forum.  It appears by the questions being asked and the numerous responses, that the drummers around here are concerned with the minute detail of the art of drumming, much beyond the simplistic categories you mention.

And to debase one of your arguments, I carry (as do a number of professional drummers) a variety of sticks in my bag to ensure I have to right tool to get the job done properly.  I mean, should I show up Saturday night for my jazz trio gig with a bag full of Quantam 1000's like I use with the rock cover band I sub in with?  It would be nice to just have to order 1 type of stick all the time, but it's unrealistic in our world.

Maybe the drummers YOU know are this way, and that would explain why you're so confused by the "less musical" argument.  But make no mistake about it, if you think we are the most uninformed members of a band, then maybe you ARE.  But its not because you're a "drummer".  Its because you choose to believe the myth and feel no need to expand your musical horizons.  Now, I know you'll get upset at this and other resposnes, but before you do, let just ask this:    

You realize you're talking to a bunch of drummers, right?
The techniques, though they play an important role in the early stage, should not be too restrictive, complex or mechanical. If we cling to them, we will become bound by their limitation.  Any technique, however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it.

Offline Louis Russell

  • Honorary VIP
  • Posts: 5905
  • Will Drum for BBQ
    • Retired Pilot Examiner
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2005, 12:38 PM »
drummers for the most part will pound on anything.

To many drummers notice no difference between birch and maple.


drummers put whatever head is on sale on their kits.

Drummers use whatever stick is around

You know where im going with this. I honestly think drummers as a rule seem to be the most uninformed members musically.

Horse Dookie!
No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!

Offline Christopher

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 2119
  • That's MR. Colaiuta to you...
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2005, 01:13 PM »
Time to Luca Brassi this thread...

Make it "sleep wit' da fishes"...
"What one man can do, another can do."
-Charles Morse (Anthony Hopkin's character from the 1997 movie, The Edge)

Offline Bart Elliott

  • Chef de Cuisine
  • Posts: 15092
  • Founder & owner of DrummerCafe.com
    • bartelliott
    • bartelliott
    • w w w . B a r t E l l i o t t . c o m
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2005, 01:49 PM »
In the public school systems ... when testing kids to figure out which musical instrument they should play ... they typically always pick those students who have the highest IQ and/or grades. If you need me to explain why, I'll be happy to, or you can just accept the facts.

When in the recording studio, you'd be surprised just how many former/current drummers are also producers and/or engineers.

99.99% of the time, I am the one explaining and leading all of the other musicians in the band. I'm explaining form, arrangements, chords, timing, etc. When I work with national artists, they may not even know me prior to hiring me, but they ALWAYS look at me first when needing explanation about the music.

drummers for the most part will pound on anything.
Actually we are so creative that we are always looking for new sounds and ideas for our music.

To many drummers notice no difference between birch and maple.
The majority do know the difference, but we've learned to make use with what we have to work with rather than agonize over it.

drummers put whatever head is on sale on their kits.
Oh right, and that's why so many guitarists are using Peavey; got to have the "right" sound.

Drummers use whatever stick is around
Actually it's because we CAN use whatever is around. Our technique is developed to the point that we can make music and execute whatever we need to do without being hindered by an apparatus that isn't our first choice. Just because we don't whine about everything doesn't mean we don't care or notice.

You know where im going with this.
Yes, yes I do. You are purposefully trying to create enemies by slandering drummers on drum forum with a bunch of false generalizations.


Here's a generalization for you ... drummers tend to get along more than any other instrumentalist. We tend to quarrel less and genuinely enjoy learning and exchanging information with one another. All of these traits are rarely seen with guitartists.

Offline Christopher

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 2119
  • That's MR. Colaiuta to you...
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2005, 02:12 PM »
I think its a real shame that you guys are wasting your precious time and effort by presenting well thought, intelligent arguments in response to such a moronic load of steaming gorilla dung.
"What one man can do, another can do."
-Charles Morse (Anthony Hopkin's character from the 1997 movie, The Edge)

Danno

  • Guest
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2005, 05:35 PM »
You know where im going with this. I honestly think drummers as a rule seem to be the most uninformed members musically.

Also from Paicey, in the "Overrated - Underrated" thread --
"I cant believe the prices used DW drums bring on ebay and the Signia equivilent is nearly passed by in comparison. Its confirmed that drummers are the most gullible folk on earth."

The most uninformed members musically ...the most gullible folk on earth ...

All except for you, right?

DWdrmr

  • Guest
Re:Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2005, 05:52 PM »
Let's see.................the last band I played with, the guitar player picked up my Humes&Berg cases by the strap that hold the lid on for 6 months before he realized there's a handle on the side..............

DWdrmr

  • Guest
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2005, 06:02 PM »
so,drums are "drums"...........maybe to a guitar player ;)

Offline Tony

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 2193
  • Art is the expression of the self.
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2005, 07:59 AM »
Here's a generalization for you ... drummers tend to get along more than any other instrumentalist. We tend to quarrel less and genuinely enjoy learning and exchanging information with one another. All of these traits are rarely seen with guitartists.


I just wanted to address this, since you were dead on about the other stuff ;D

I have found a number of drummers in my community who I hang out with.  In the sense that we get together for coffee and talk drums, exchange ideas, etc.  None of us are "better" than the others, but each of us has strong and weak points.  We share exercises, give mini-lessons to one another and loan each other gear as needed.  

One of these guys is also a multi-instrumentalist, music over achiever.  He spent 8 years in the military as a drummer in a marching band and base jazz band.  He's not much of a rock or funk drummer.  I am, so we help each other become stronger all around players.  I never marched, had no experience in that field and have gained more insight than ever over the last year.

Recently, I was in need of a bass player.  I asked the local bass teacher/music store guy if he ws interested in joining this group I have sort of put together, but he's not interested.  His suggestion?  My drumming buddy.  He tells me the guy has been studying bass with him for 2 years, can read and play and in fact, has taken HIS place in their church band as bassist (commitment issues.)  So I did, and its worked out great.  The added bonus is my desire to learn proper hand drumming is fulfilled, because not only is the guy a drummer I can relate to rhythmically, but he plays and owns a set of congas, and a variety of other hand drums, etc.
He's brought therm up, and we are in the proces of layering percussion parts to create some loops to drop into out original songs.  

The point of this rambling is that my recording studio partner (a guitarist) seems a bit baffled by the harmonious nature of this arrangement.  Of course, he's a guitarist!!
The techniques, though they play an important role in the early stage, should not be too restrictive, complex or mechanical. If we cling to them, we will become bound by their limitation.  Any technique, however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it.

Offline Shane Stylianos

  • VIP / Subscriber
  • Posts: 154
  • You only have to be better than you were yesterday
Re:Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2005, 09:21 AM »
Let's see.................the last band I played with, the guitar player picked up my Humes&Berg cases by the strap that hold the lid on for 6 months before he realized there's a handle on the side..............

Ever watch a guitarist, or anyone other than a drummer, for that matter, try to fold up a cymbal stand?  It's to the point where I hate when people try to help out, since it ends up being MORE work.
"If the problem has a solution, worrying is pointless, in the end the problem will be solved. If the problem has no solution, there is no reason to worry, because it can't be solved." Zen Proverb

Offline Rusty Beckett

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 366
Re:Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2005, 09:39 AM »
I'm sitting at my desk reading this stuff and laughing my ... off.  (a handle- wow  - how funny!)

I've also seen great communication and friendships between drummers and have heard players of other instruments picking at each other.  One thing about musicians - you'll always find some with egos so big you have to wonder how they can stand themselves and others (usually monstor players too) as humble, nice and willing to share what they know as possible.  
Proud player of Vintage Rogers Drums

gretschdrummer

  • Guest
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2005, 10:54 AM »
I wonder why Paicey doesn't reply. . .  ???

Offline Louis Russell

  • Honorary VIP
  • Posts: 5905
  • Will Drum for BBQ
    • Retired Pilot Examiner
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2005, 11:55 AM »
Here's a generalization for you ... drummers tend to get along more than any other instrumentalist. We tend to quarrel less and genuinely enjoy learning and exchanging information with one another. All of these traits are rarely seen with guitartists.


Congrats Bart!  Excellent post.  Your comments express my feelings much better than my horse dookie comment.  
No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!

Offline Bart Elliott

  • Chef de Cuisine
  • Posts: 15092
  • Founder & owner of DrummerCafe.com
    • bartelliott
    • bartelliott
    • w w w . B a r t E l l i o t t . c o m
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2005, 12:32 PM »
Congrats Bart!  Excellent post.  Your comments express my feelings much better than my horse dookie comment.  


Offline Tony

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 2193
  • Art is the expression of the self.
Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2005, 12:35 PM »
Bart, your animation makes me giggle  :)
The techniques, though they play an important role in the early stage, should not be too restrictive, complex or mechanical. If we cling to them, we will become bound by their limitation.  Any technique, however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it.

DWdrmr

  • Guest
Re:Are drummers kinda dense?
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2005, 04:43 PM »
Maybe I was too hard on my former colleage....he was just trying to help. Louis's re-post of Bart's comment  made me think about that...hmmm...NAHHHH,lol..JK. Honestly,the other guys in the band generally would LOVE to help us...but all they're going to do is move your memory locks,"handle" your cymbals,etc. Their hearts are in the right place,they just don't have a clue about setting up and tearing down........ I do it all myself except for the mics

 

Drummer Cafe RSS Feeds Drummer Cafe on Twitter Drummer Cafe on Facebook Drummer Cafe on YouTube Drummer Cafe on Pinterest Drummer Cafe on Instagram