Topic: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?  (Read 11051 times)

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Offline Dave Heim

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2006, 01:52 PM »

An open mind can be a beautiful thing.


Always keep an open mind - someone may want to drop in a thought.

So, as I read this single-head tom thread I'm having flashbacks to when they - and the music they made - were popular the first time!  All hail Hal Blaine! 

If only I had kept those sets!  :)
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Offline Joe

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2006, 02:04 PM »
Quote
All hail Hal Blaine!

 ]YouTube presents Karen Carpenter with her drum solo as featured on one of the Carpenters's specials .

If you like, fast forward to 3:30 for the concert toms, which is my main reason for posting this---they even sound Blaine-y, which is to be expected. 
I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast.  I play half-fast.

Offline Dave Heim

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2006, 02:24 PM »
]YouTube presents Karen Carpenter with her drum solo as featured on one of the Carpenters's specials .

If you like, fast forward to 3:30 for the concert toms, which is my main reason for posting this---they even sound Blaine-y, which is to be expected. 

Karen rocked.  What a loss.  The TV set for that bit looks like the cover of a 70's Ludwig catalog.
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Offline chillman4130

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2006, 02:29 PM »

I submit that you're too young to decide what you'll "never" do on drums.

Good thing Jerry Marotta didn't have an "I'll never play without cymbals" mentality - he'd have never made that groundbreaking Peter Gabriel album. When he showed up for the gig, Peter informed him he'd like him to play without cymbals. Jerry went along with it, and the rest is history

An open mind can be a beautiful thing.

I humbly defer to your experience, Mr. A.   :-\

I can, however, unequivocally say that every time I have played a single-headed tom I have more than disliked the sound.
WARNING: Check my posts for sarcasm before believing anything I say.

Chris Hillman

Offline 0007

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2006, 03:03 PM »
I can, however, unequivocally say that every time I have played a single-headed tom I have more than disliked the sound.

I have to agree -- my first kit as a teenager was single-head, and they sounded good, but kinda dead and simple compared to all the things a reso head can give you.
"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his very soul?"

Offline Mister Acrolite

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2006, 03:09 PM »
I can, however, unequivocally say that every time I have played a single-headed tom I have more than disliked the sound.

And that is absolutely a fair judgment.

I just know I've been surprised by A) what I've been asked to do, and B) what has actually worked out really well, despite my concerns. Particularly in the studio.

For me it's largely a nostalgia thing, I'm sure. I grew up in the Hal Blaine era, and got into country music during a time when concert toms were pretty popular, plus I was both a Carl Palmer and Mark Craney fan - I freaking LOVE the sounds Craney got on Gino Vanelli's Brother to Brother.

Anyway, my big stack o' concert toms is scheduled to show up tomorrow, so if you hear the intro to Hawaii Five-O drifting through the Florida breeze, that'll be me!   ;D
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Offline Joe

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2006, 03:31 PM »
The TV set for that bit looks like the cover of a 70's Ludwig catalog.

I was actually thinking of editing my post to say just that, but it was a bit late—plus I figured you'd pick up on that anyway. :)
I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast.  I play half-fast.

Offline Joe

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2006, 03:37 PM »
I grew up in the Hal Blaine era, and got into country music during a time when concert toms were pretty popular....

Which I think were in large part played by Larrie Londin.  Louderdb mentioned to me in chat a while back that he saw an Ebay auction featuring a set of Londin's concert toms, and for not a bad price apparently.  They were fiberglass shells (Pearl?) and of gong drum-like construction, with the lugs shimmed up a half inch or so, with accordingly-sized rims and heads.  Certainly he must have been quite accurate with those broomhandle-like sticks I read he used....

EDIT:  I found his signature sticks available on page 31 in this PDF file of Pearl's 1978 catalog, though a bit smaller than the 19" sticks I read of on RMMP.  http://www.pearldrum.com/02_catarchive/1978.pdf  The catalog also features plenty of concert toms. :)
I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast.  I play half-fast.

BigBillInBoston

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2006, 04:00 PM »
http://www.pearldrum.com/02_catarchive/1978.pdf  The catalog also features plenty of concert toms. :)

WOW  :o... That catalog is concert tom city!!!!

BigBill

Offline chillman4130

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2006, 04:04 PM »
I just know I've been surprised by A) what I've been asked to do, and B) what has actually worked out really well, despite my concerns. Particularly in the studio.

Ah, true. All bets are off once you get in the studio, I guess.
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Offline David Crigger

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2006, 01:46 AM »

Which leads us to the other version of this...influnetial drummer deecides to try something different, others see it/like it and want similar, manufacturers respond and, voila, we have a new trend.  :)

BigBill

Generally, I think the drum industry just tries to catch up with musician led "trends" as soon as they can - or as soon as they think there is demand for "the next new thing".

I've never gotten a sense of the industry leading the way. Enough guys start showing up in prominent places with jazz size toms...and they'll become available.

Players in the studio have been experimenting with woofers for years - now you can buy a shining new one.  Same with sub kick mics - now available in a neat, manufactured, stand-mountable factory version... as opposed to setting that NS-10 with the blown tweeter up next to the drum or duct taping an old car stereo speaker to a mic stand (same result - not really developed by a drum company, just packaged and and marketed)

Going back to concert toms in pop music - round one... Hal had a set custom made (Blaemire shells, etc), plays on a bazillion hit records, guys are pulling bottom heads, rims and lugs off of drums trying to cop the sound - so the companies finally caught up and the Octaplus etc were born.

About the only place the players haven't totally led the way with commercial trends is with heads - all these bazillion heads that with the occasional exceptions over the years - CS heads, hydraulics, pinstripes & PS-3 (BD heads with the built in doubled outer edge).  And yet, the lion's share of influential players - on record and in person - use clear and/or coated, single and/or double ply heads, period.  I'll bet those four head types plus the four exceptions mentioned earlier (plus calf) created the sounds on 90% of everyone's CD and album collections. But I digress... :-)

Naw - I'm sure the drum industry can only wish and dream of having that much of an effect on their market. They just don't have that much control - players will play what they want to play, and if the companies are making the right stuff, the player will find it used or build it themself.

David

Offline Mark Counts

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2006, 12:34 PM »
I humbly defer to your experience, Mr. A.   :-\

I can, however, unequivocally say that every time I have played a single-headed tom I have more than disliked the sound.

I own an old Kit of Green and Blue label Ludwigs and They really don't sound that bad. I played that kit for 25 years and they project sound great and they tune easy.http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4042/fh0000017hu.jpg.
I submit that they recorded very well too.  I would have no problem playing them infront of a very large critical audience.
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Offline Louis Russell

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2006, 12:45 PM »
I would have no problem playing them infront of a very large critical audience.

And I did for many years and still use this kit a lot.  Not only do do the toms have one head but I only used one overhead mic.  This pic was early 80's.
ps That's my buddy stretch sitting on the bass drum! ;D

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Offline Mark Counts

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2006, 12:53 PM »
And I did for many years and still use this kit a lot.  Not only do do the toms have one head but I only used one overhead mic.  This pic was early 80's.
ps That's my buddy streatch sitting on the bass drum! ;D


I love this pic Louis. Stretch is very cool too. The single head drums did the job.
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Offline Louis Russell

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2006, 01:01 PM »
I love this pic Louis. Stretch is very cool too. The single head drums did the job.
                                    Nutty

Stretch was a cool dude, but useless.  All he would do was sit there and rubberneck the women.   ;D  BUT, when a good groove was going he would get that head a boppin and enjoy the view. 
No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2006, 01:11 PM »
I guess confession is good for the soul. Vintage 78.
http://www.geocities.com/tookstr/Pearl

I have a feeling single headed toms sound a lot better with Rims type mounts.

Offline Matt Self (Gaddabout)

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2006, 01:15 PM »
First, Noble & Cooley is not known for being a marketing-driven company. They are almost the opposite of that. They make some of the highest quality drums for a very, very small market. Noble & Cooley is niche driven. They are also small, so people like Chris Whitten probably enjoy working directly with N&C because there's not 15 people between the customer and the corporation.

Second, like bell bottoms, concert toms will come around again. It's inevitable. I remember when I could never find even a mid-level kit with fusion-sized toms. The entry-level market drives product design, and nobody wanted fusion-sized toms when I first started. Everyone wanted two bass drums and rack toms with deep shells, just like the rockers of my day. If you wanted a 10x10 tom, you were probably looking at high-end Yammies or Gretsch, and those were way out of my price range. I'll never forget what the floor salesman said when I asked for short-stack toms: "Dude, that's not a tom, that's an octoban."

Now, of course, there are entry and low mid-level kits with optional fusion-sized toms. I was born about 20 years too early.

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BigBillInBoston

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2006, 02:21 PM »
And I did for many years and still use this kit a lot.  Not only do do the toms have one head but I only used one overhead mic.  This pic was early 80's.
ps That's my buddy stretch sitting on the bass drum! ;D



Louis, nice uniforms your band had... do you have the same ones today?

Were you playing John Denver's "Thank God I'm a Country Boy"  ???

Yours truly,

former Iowa farmboy,

BigBill

Offline Dave Heim

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2006, 05:09 PM »
Stretch was a cool dude, but useless.  All he would do was sit there and rubberneck the women. . .

What . . .  was he afraid to get out there and mingle?  Was he yella?  Was he chicken?  :)
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Offline Chris Whitten

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2006, 03:11 AM »
I guess I might as well chip in on this discussion.
Firstly, Mr A and myself are leading this concert tom revival.  ;D

N&C have nothing to do with my decision to use concert toms.
Fact is, over the past few years I've immersed myself in 70's recording sounds and techniques, partly through an interest in the sampled loops on dance records and my own virtual drum sampler projects.
The World Party's music is heavily influenced by 70's music such as late Beatles, Dylan and Neil Young. So I thought the thuddy sound of single headed toms might work well.
Actually, I'm enjoying the instant response these drums give me.
OK, as to the conspiracy theory........
I was watching Ebay for several months for cool vintage kits to take on this tour.
At one point I found a nice set of Sonor concert toms. Unfortunately I was sniped.  :(
To cut a long story short, it dawned on me I should just buy a new kit.
Who would supply a kit including concert toms? Probably no one.
I used to endorse N&C of course.
I gingerly contacted them. Being the nice people they are, they graciously agreed to take on the job.
It probably would have been easier for them and preferrable to produce a standard CD Maples.
So no, it isn't a move by the companies, just a move by two 40+ drummer guys (Mr A and myself).

 

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