Topic: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?  (Read 11618 times)

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Dead Trooper

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2006, 04:37 PM »
The above not withstanding...I'll stand by my view that drum companies (as well as every other company that makes product for consumers) are always happy to embrace any trend that they perceive will allow them to profitably sell more product.

BigBill

Bill, isn't that what most businesses everywhere are out to do?

Felix, I dig your old school rock references.

Me, I'm not much for single headed drums on my own projects. I'd love to get some big Rotos and make a set with them. Sweet.

Mark Counts

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2006, 04:44 PM »
It's the real thing.
In the 70's, I purposly took my Reso heads off including the bass head.
I think it is the real thing also.
                           Nutty

MikeE

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #63 on: August 21, 2006, 05:03 PM »
Yeah.
I was going to say, that's the all time classic set-up. CS Dot heads with strips of gaffa and toilet roll.

Can ya tell I started playing in the 80's? ;D    Let's not leave out the Simmons pads!
My main kit nowadays looks & sounds more respectable (or at least more modern).  I like to keep that Imperialstar kit set up in the den just to scare the children.
-Mike

drumrjohnr

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #64 on: August 21, 2006, 06:14 PM »
So...Chris Whittens beautiful Noble & Cooley single-headed tom set that he is currently touring with got me thinking. Is the drum industry like most other consumer oriented industries... trying to find ways to push "style change" on consumers for the sake of selling more product?

I'm sensing this in the industry "revival" of single-headed toms. If they can get the momentum going we'll all "need" (or think we will) a set of these. It would be hard to believe that the drum industry is not like others who sell to consumers. E.g. clothing..."Ok, let's all do short skirts this year...go from "earth tones" to "pastels"...etc.

Anyone else see an industry pushed trend trying to form here?

Please note...I'm not saying it's a bad thing or unusual. I'm just saying I don't think this is necessarily boiling up directly from the drum consumer.

Plus...they really do look cool... and sound different... and I do need some new drum stuff.............   ;)

BigBill


I am agnostic about giving specific drum voicing advice but this should be easy enough to experiment with by just removing your resonant head.

There will be signifcant sonic differences some subtle and some less so. Obviously less fundamental power and sustain.

One subtle difference is a different overtone series will be dominant. Instead of a first overtone at roughly 1.7x the fundamental, the series starting at 2.1x will sound (almost an octave). Another subtle effect is that for the same head weight and tension the drum will resonate at a lower fundamental note than if two heads were mounted.

This might be interesting to play around with for recording and will give a "different" sound. I wouldn't expect it to be universally embraced as better or drums wouldn't have two heads on them now.  :)

John Roberts
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Chris Whitten

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #65 on: August 21, 2006, 06:23 PM »
I wouldn't expect it to be universally embraced as better or drums wouldn't have two heads on them now.  :)
 

I know what you are saying, but 'better' is a subjective term.
I'm not touring with an inferior tom sound, more a different tom sound.
Double headed toms are currently in vogue. I love their sound also and like you said, removing the bottom head produces a different sound, not a worse sound persay.

Matt Self (Gaddabout)

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2006, 06:30 PM »
I know what you are saying, but 'better' is a subjective term.
I'm not touring with an inferior tom sound, more a different tom sound.
Double headed toms are currently in vogue. I love their sound also and like you said, removing the bottom head produces a different sound, not a worse sound persay.

Someone needs to get Chris some heavy armor. ;) I've never seen more blindsided attacks on something so subjective, particularly when the person making the choice is collecting a paycheck (hopefully a handsome one).

Chris Whitten

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2006, 08:10 PM »
"Whatchoo talkin' bout, Willis?"  ;)

drumrjohnr

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2006, 09:35 PM »
I know what you are saying, but 'better' is a subjective term.
I'm not touring with an inferior tom sound, more a different tom sound.
Double headed toms are currently in vogue. I love their sound also and like you said, removing the bottom head produces a different sound, not a worse sound persay.
Sorry about my choice of words... I was just making an observation about the apparent popularity of two head drums for general drum kit use. My intent was to share what some of the differences in resonance modes would be and not to make a judgement one way or the other. As i stated I'm agnostic about kit voicing

Perhaps the real conspiracy is to sell twice as many drum heads?  :o


John Roberts


Joe

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #69 on: August 21, 2006, 09:46 PM »
I think the real question is:  Will previously-decried and neglected (not to mention cheap) concert toms c. 1977 come to experience a fate recently befallen the Ludwig Acrolite, thanks to the favorable publicity now and to come?

The time to buy is now. (½ ;) )

David Crigger

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #70 on: August 22, 2006, 03:13 AM »
... so I may just try 1-ply coated heads, depending on what I've got sitting around the house. Clear 1-ply heads are another option, and I may try Classic Clear with Power Dot.

Love to know what you finally settle on. The Classic Clear with Power Dot seems quite intriguing.

You guys are getting me all inspired here. I've been needing to refurbish my second set of Blaemire's and am toying with returning them to their single-headed roots. Which they sounded really really great as.

David

felix

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2006, 07:38 AM »
I don't think resotune meant any harm.  I've met him and he is very open minded about drum tuning.  He has an opinion and I agree for the most part... dbl head toms and all the new head choices give a drummer "acoustic processing control" as opposed to an engineer (that's how I see it). 

My opinion is I think concert toms really shine with close miking and a healthy dose of reverb/fx.  I think they process easier and more effectively than dbl headed toms.  Much easier to control overtones *a big duhhhh- uh huh there* ;D

Whatever, not a big deal- they are just concert toms.


David Crigger

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #72 on: August 22, 2006, 12:51 PM »
Just when you thought it was safe:
http://cgi.ebay.com/80s-Gretsch-Custom-6-pc-Maple-drum-set-w-concert-toms_W0QQitemZ300018756825QQihZ020QQcategoryZ64439QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If those were 8 - 10 - 12 - 14 - 16 instead 1213141516, I would be seriously considering them.

dc

BigBillInBoston

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #73 on: August 22, 2006, 03:12 PM »
Bill, isn't that what most businesses everywhere are out to do?


My point exactly...nothing wrong with moving product and making money. It's the kind of thing that allow you to re-invest your profits in retooling your production line to make (wait for it)... SINGLE_HEADED TOMS  ;D 8) ;D

Christopher

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #74 on: August 22, 2006, 03:31 PM »
Ahh... 'everything old is new again'

That's the old saying, isn't it?

Something not yet mentioned (that happens to be my favorite thing about concert toms) is how FAST they are.

No "recoil" from the bottom head.

You can rip on 'em concert toms.  ;D

But (overall) for sound, I'm a two head dude.  8)


Chris Whitten

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2006, 07:46 PM »
If those were 8 - 10 - 12 - 14 - 16 instead 1213141516, I would be seriously considering them.

Yeah man. 100%  :)
Those are the sizes I chose for my Noble & Cooley.
Refurb your Blaemire's and jump on our band wagon!  :D ;) 8) ;)

Chris Whitten

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2006, 07:48 PM »
Sorry about my choice of words...

No apology needed. That's why I started my retort by saying I knew what you meant.  ;)

Chris Whitten

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2006, 07:51 PM »
Ahh... 'everything old is new again'

That's the old saying, isn't it?

Yeah.  :)
Our keyboard player Amanda just saw Devo - with Josh Freese on drums.
She said it was an awesome show, especially because of the fabulous drumming.

drumz1

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #78 on: August 26, 2006, 01:26 PM »
Naw - I'm sure the drum industry can only wish and dream of having that much of an effect on their market. They just don't have that much control - players will play what they want to play, and if the companies are making the right stuff, the player will find it used or build it themself.



Perfectly said, David.  I agree with every word.

drumrjohnr

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Re: The "Revival" of Single-Headed Toms- Drum Industry "Conspiracy"?
« Reply #79 on: August 30, 2006, 01:33 PM »
No apology needed. That's why I started my retort by saying I knew what you meant.  ;)
Great.

I have given this some more thought and can be a little more specific about the differences between one head and two head drums.

In two-headed drums there will be 3 important resonances that impact the drum's voice or sound. The batter head has a specifc lug overtone note associated with it's weight and lug tension. This is the note you hear if tapping the drumhead near the lug while lightly damping vibration at mid drumhead. The bottom or resonant head will have it's own lug overtone note as defined by it's weight and tension. Finally there is a fundamental (lower) whole drum resonance which is defined by the weight and average tension of both heads combined. The batter and resonant lug overtones can be tuned independently to the same note or different ones. The ratio between fundamental and these lug overtones will vary over a range due to different head weights and tensioning.

In a single head drum. The lug overtone will pretty much always occur at the nominal ratio of 2.1x the fundamental. Adjusting the lug tension up or down raises or lowers both but always in the same ratio.

The >2x ratio of a concert tom is difficult if even possible to attain with two heads mounted so the concert tom is not just a less complex sound but it offers a wider ratio beteen fundamental and overtone than is possible with two heads mounted.. This is a simplification as there are other elements that also contribute to what makes up a drum's voice but these are some of the key differences.

John Roberts
Circular Science

 

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