Topic: Bad Bearing Edge Service  (Read 6104 times)

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rfenergy

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Bad Bearing Edge Service
« on: November 26, 2008, 02:50 AM »
Hello All,

This is my first post here. I have been lurking for a few weeks now.

I have a set of Ludwig Classic Maples, All of my toms had problems from when I bought them , my former dealer did nothing to help replace/fix the drums.
The problem drums are the 10x8 tom , 12x8 tom , 14x14 floor tom and my bass drum is outta round by 1/4 inch. The toms all have low points on the edges (I tested all of them on two different glass tables and my friends table saw surface which is milled steel. I did the piece of paper test and the flashlight test as well). All of the drums would buzz if tuned low.

Flash to two weeks ago...

I found a drum shop in the metro Detroit area that said they had a really great drum mechanic. I had them do all the toms for $150.00. I asked that they re-cut the drums to square and do new edges to the Ludwig standard of 45 degrees with 1/16 of an inch at the edge.

I bought all new batter and reso heads, all aquarian studio X and classic clear resos. I was having some trouble tuning my 10 inch tom batter so I checked it on a 1 inch thick glass plate and a steel table saw surface. The edge of 10 inch drum shows a low spot about two lugs wide (I can slide 4 sheets of paper under this spot and you can see the space clearly looking across the drum when it is on a level surface). The other drums show different problems, the 12 inch tom edge has a flaw in the edge, the 14 inch tom seems to be okay, but has burn marks where the edge was cut and is still a bit out of round (I was told by the drum mechanic that he could get this drum back in round by cutting a bit of the height of the drum). I believe the drum was not squared properly before cutting the bearing edge.

If any one can confirm my assumptions regarding drum edge cutting, they are.
1. you must first make the drum square.
2. you must then cut the edge at the speed of the wood with the router. I found some burn marks on the inside of the edge that were cut (this shows that router speed was too high, I use a slower speed on birch vs maple so I do not burn the wood on my projects), this did not inspire my confidence in the person who made the cuts.
3. fine sand the edges.
4. wax edges.
5. enjoy really good sounding drums.

The only reason I did not DIY is because I do not have a big router table, and I figured it would be easier if someone with experience did the job. At any rate I am disappointed with the work that was done.

How hard can it be to make a drum square?

It seems to be a pretty simple task with the right gear. (I make studio monitors and guitar cabinets from marine grade Baltic birch with a router, table saw, and a plate joiner and they are square.)

Does anyone know of anyone in the metro Detroit,MI area who can do this type of work that knows what the hell they are doing?

Should I go and buy a big router table and DIY it?
What other equipment would I need to do this job?

Sorry about the complaining on my first post, but this is extremely frustrating.

Thank You,

Robert

Offline Chip Donaho

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Re: Bad Bearing Edge Service
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2008, 08:22 AM »
First, how do you know the floor tom and bass are out of round? Are the hoops warped? The edges/shape of the shell and hoops are two different things. Edges don't have to be fixed with a router unless there are other problems going on with the drum. A drum that has bad edge work can be fixed by hand. But drums that are out of round won't heal. They can be fixed if only slightly warped. Did you buy the set new or used? Was the drums brought back to the shop after they fixed them and you discovered the problem? Sorry, I'm just trying to get a better picture of what is really happening.  :-\
Craviotto-DW-Mapex-Slingerland
Paiste-Zildjian
"When you quit learning you start dying."-My Grandfather

diddle

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Re: Bad Bearing Edge Service
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2008, 09:52 AM »
hi rf,

Your "list of assumptions" seem good to me and it sounds like you have a good understanding of wood working... but only you can decide if you should invest in more equipment... I'd only do that if I expected to use it a lot...

As far as reworking your drums, let me point out that NO drum is perfect... nor does it really need to be... while you very well might have "out of round" shells or "not true edges", that is not necessarily so bad to justify costly rework...

the bottom line here is 1) are you able to tune up the drum in question?, if NO, then try some different heads and different tensions.  And 2) will the drum hold a tune setting?  If you can tune but the drum keeps falling out of tune then simple rework of the edges (applying wood filler & sanding) might be needed.

if you think your shell is out of round then I'd confirm by trying a different RIM.  Cutting down the shell seems drastic to me... I'd sell the drums before doing that!

Be careful not to spend more on rework than the drums are worth...


rfenergy

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Re: Bad Bearing Edge Service
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2008, 06:20 PM »
Hello,

Thank you for your replies.

I bought the drums new about 4 years ago. My former dealer said the drums were OK, Ludwig did not help out at the time, I heard they are pretty good now. oh well, live and learn... I had problems from the beginning with tuning because of the bad edges. Low range of tuning was buzz city. After the re-cut that was done there is an improvement. But the 10 inch tom and 12 inch toms will rock on a flat surface and I can see a space where the lower areas are on the edges, I also did the paper test and flashlight test, so there are visible problems with flatness on the edges on the 10 and 12 inch drums.

The 14 inch floor tom is outta round by about 3/16" to 1/8", the floor tom seems to be OK after the service.

the 10 inch tom has a bias on the batter side.

The 12 inch tom has a bias on both reso and batter side.

Thank You,

Robert

p.s. I did talk to the drum shop today, the guy who did the work was helpfull and said this is his first complaint and he will do what is takes to make me happy with the job. So I guess I'll give him another shot.

I do want to build a stave shell so, I guess my next project will be to build a big router table.

Offline Chip Donaho

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Re: Bad Bearing Edge Service
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2008, 07:24 PM »
p.s. I did talk to the drum shop today, the guy who did the work was helpfull and said this is his first complaint and he will do what is takes to make me happy with the job. So I guess I'll give him another shot.
Can't ask for much more than that at this time.
Now you will find out if he knows his stuff.  ;)
Craviotto-DW-Mapex-Slingerland
Paiste-Zildjian
"When you quit learning you start dying."-My Grandfather

Offline Jon E

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Re: Bad Bearing Edge Service
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2008, 09:01 PM »
Dude, I am flabbergasted that you went through so much trouble for what *I* consider a minor problem.  Tune the drums and play 'em.  4 sheets of paper??!!  What is that, 1/64th of an inch??  Whatever.



Paicey

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Re: Bad Bearing Edge Service
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2008, 03:06 PM »
I had some bearing edge work done years ago only to see what looked like a scout knife was used to HACK at the edges....yes...HACK, while drunk! type hacking. Orange county drums and percussion re-did them to absolute........PERFECTION.

rfenergy

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Re: Bad Bearing Edge Service
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2008, 06:45 AM »
Dude, I am flabbergasted that you went through so much trouble for what *I* consider a minor problem.  Tune the drums and play 'em.  4 sheets of paper??!!  What is that, 1/64th of an inch??  Whatever.




Hello,

I did re-measure the gap and it is a hair under 3mm, not very good for a machined surface. I tested with 4 sheets of paper, only because I only had 4 sheets at the time. Am I picky? absolutely. When I do wood working I deliver the goods or I burn it and start all over again.

Out,

Robert

rfenergy

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Re: Bad Bearing Edge Service
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2008, 02:45 AM »
Weekend Update...

Shop re-did edges, at no extra charge.

Much better than the first time.

All is good now.

Thank you all.

Out,

Robert


 

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