Topic: bass drum pedal  (Read 1907 times)

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jr

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bass drum pedal
« on: January 21, 2008, 10:46 AM »
hello and thanks for letting me register to the forum.
My question is I just recieved my Tama starclassic bubinga omni tune awesome set let me tell you. I was wondering i have a dw 9000 pedal for some reason I am having a problem with the beater bouncing off of the skin. I have no hole in the front which I like the skins are not very tight at all i did some adjusting with the pedal and seems better. any suggestions? I also Tried a different beater. Thanks.

Ryan Culberson

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2008, 11:45 AM »
It sounds like you might be 'burying' the beater into the bass drum head at impact, either consciously or unconsciously.  It's a completely valid technique (if intentional) but it is much harder to accomplish cleanly when the front bass drum head is intact, IMO.

Nice drums and pedal, BTW!   ;D   


 

JeffK

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2008, 12:33 PM »
Hello,

The problem is not with your bass drum pedal.

This is a typical result of having an non-ported front head on your bass drum. The air is not escaping fast enough from the drum so you are getting more bounce from the batter head. A port in the front will go a long way to help remove some of the added bounce you are experiencing. You can adjust your foot technique as well to compensate.

This is neither a good or bad situation, it's just different. Bonham did not have a ported front head, so go figure.

JeffK

jr

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2008, 12:45 PM »
Thanks guys, I figured it might cause of no hole in the front mainly because I didn't have this problem with my other kit. I love the look of having no hole with the white skin and the sound coming out of this drum with no muffle except the evan eq4 is incredable my nephew was playing and the sound was just pounding into my chest awesome awesome awesome. I wish I had a foot like bonham. I guess i could try it for a little while and see If i could adjust I don't have any gigs till march so I have some time. If I do have to cut a hole how small do you think I could get away with? Any other ideas? thanks again

Ryan Culberson

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 01:06 PM »
Any other ideas?

Develop the ability to release the beater from the batter head at impact.  It takes a long time, and feels completely different than burying the beater, but it would add another facet to your playing in the long run. 

JeffK is spot on with his analysis, IMO.  A small port off to the side would work... perhaps 4" or 5".  With no muffling and such a small hole, you would still experience a big, booming sound.  And, like Jeff mentioned, the added air escape would solve a lot of the bouncing beater issue.

In order to preserve the stock head, you could always buy a pre-ported head such as an  http://www.evansdrumheads.com/EVProducts.aspx?ID=1&CLASS=RBDB]Evans EQ-3 . 



JeffK

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 02:58 PM »
Hello,

Just a quick note. If you decide to cut into your front head, REMOVE it from the drum and cut it. Don't cut the head while it is under tension or the head could tear. Learned that one the hard way.

I wouldn't ruin that nice Starclassic head myself. Save it for photo's and promotional shots of your kit. Get a nice Evans ported head for gigging, maks the sound tech's happy anyway.

JK

Joeos5

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 10:44 PM »
I am having the same bass drum bounce problem but I am not sure I am convinced about the hole in the head. I don't have a hole in my bass drum. I have played other bass drums and they don't have the bounce  on the head like mine .Yjeu also didn't have the hole in the head.  Mostly I play heel down and so its not a problem but sometimes I like to play heel up and that's when I have problems.  I am going to take my pedal to one of my students house and put it on his kit and  see what happens.  So, its still a mystery to me.  I will be interested to hear any other ideas on how to solve this for sure.  Ciao, Joe

Mark Counts

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 11:29 PM »
Hello,


I wouldn't ruin that nice Starclassic head myself. Save it for photo's and promotional shots of your kit. Get a nice Evans ported head for gigging, maks the sound tech's happy anyway.

JK
You can buy Starclassic stock heads and I have deface mine with a hole and some custom stuff and the Paiste Signature sticker that goes along with the color scheme.
I have done this several times. Black and Gold Reso on a Natural Maple Laquer finish, looks great. I don't see a problem with experimenting.

I am having the same bass drum bounce problem but I am not sure I am convinced about the hole in the head. I don't have a hole in my bass drum. I have played other bass drums and they don't have the bounce on the head like mine .
Just something to try Joe,
Tilt your kick drum back a little bit. Extend the legs of your kick drum and see if that doesn't help. You may have a pedal problem but see if positioning the kick drum helps?
                     Nutty

bolweevil

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2008, 08:17 AM »
I know most of you folks don't think it's a pedal issue, but it was for me.  I used to have the springs really tight, and that seemed to be causing the bounce-back.  I loosened it a bit, and that did the trick. 

A buddy of mine has a non-ported reso on his kick, but his spring tension is absolutely dead so bouncing wasn't an issue (hard to play doubles on that kit, though  ::)).

Mark Counts

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2008, 08:49 AM »
We had the same problem with the kick drum at church. You are right, I did loosen the pedal tension and I felt the the batter head was to tight.  I also angled the drum  by extending the legs a little. The problem went away. I don't think having a ported or non ported reso head makes any difference.
                               Nutty

Louis Russell

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2008, 09:12 AM »
I don't think having a ported or non ported reso head makes any difference.

I can tell a difference between feel of the ported and non-ported heads.  I prefer the non ported feel myself.  There is a bigger difference in the feel if the pedal is not set up correctly in relation to the bass drum.  Physics are on your side when the beater is touching the head when the beater shaft is vertical and your pedal board is in a comfortable playing position.  Some pedals have an adjustment for the position of the pedal board in relation to the beater.  If the drumhead it too far from the beater due to the tilt of the drum or the size of the beater it is not as mechanically efficient.  This is just the ramblings of an old man, but it works for me.

Mark Counts

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2008, 09:21 AM »
I can tell a difference between feel of the ported and non-ported heads.  I prefer the non ported feel myself.  There is a bigger difference in the feel if the pedal is not set up correctly in relation to the bass drum.  Physics are on your side when the beater is touching the head when the beater shaft is vertical and your pedal board is in a comfortable playing position.  Some pedals have an adjustment for the position of the pedal board in relation to the beater.  If the drumhead it too far from the beater due to the tilt of the drum or the size of the beater it is not as mechanically efficient.  This is just the ramblings of an old man, but it works for me.
I think you and I agree mostly. I do think there is a little different feel in ported or non ported, I am just not sure that his double bounce problem is the reso head? More pedal set up or how the beater aligns with the drum.
                     Nutty

JeffK

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2008, 01:48 PM »
I don't think having a ported or non ported reso head makes any difference.
I do think there is a little different feel in ported or non ported.

Well, which answer do you stand by?

Not to argue the point, but the resonant head makes a difference on a large vibrating air chamber like a bass drum. All that air has to be displaced somewhere. If your friends kit has two air holes in the shell that may be enough to solve the issue.

You didn't mention how much, if any muffling you use. That is another factor. Try stuffing a big bed pillow in the drum up against the batter head and see if your beater still bounces. You are using one of the top pedals in the business, a DW9000, so I doubt it's the pedals fault. The Tama Bubinga series probably has a single ply batter head on it as well, which can contribute to some of the extra bounce.

I've never experienced having to tilt my bass drum back, but it would seem to me that if this is the case, then something is wrong with the drum or the pedal. When the pedal is mounted to the hoop of the drum everything should be at a perfect right angle. If your beater is striking on it's edge or not perfectly flat with the head, then you need to adjust the angle of the beater head and not the bass drum itself.

For a simple subject like this there are far too many variables that can cause your issue, so try a little experimenting and see if you can find a comfortable medium.

I personally play a Mapex Pro M 24 X 18 bass with an Evans Emad single ply with impact pads on the batter side and the stock Mapex logo head with the left over Emad foam ring around the inside. I use the Tama Iron Cobra double pedal with felt beaters. Before I put the port in the front head my beaters were bouncing off the head as well, after I used the port in the front head the bouncing decreased measurably. I added a small rolled hotel towel and that seemed to remove most of the unintended bouncing. My cobra's are tightened as tight as possible and the bater head is adjusted to just below medium tension with the resonant head a few steps up from that. I still catch myself getting unintended doubles if I try and cheat on technique or I'm getting tired by the third set.

Good luck

Mark Counts

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2008, 03:32 PM »
I don't think having a ported or non ported reso head makes any difference.
I do think there is a little different feel in ported or non ported.


I don't think the reso head would cause the double bounce. Guess I need to be a little clearer, Sorry. I have three kits, and I take care of and play the ones at church too.  I have two kits with no port and the other two have ports. I have never felt like the port had anything to do with the double bounce. Plus the double bounce only came from the one at church. I played the kit with no port and then I cut a hole in it. The bounce was still a problem. I felt the the batter head had been tuned up to high so I loosened it.  I decreased the pedal tension a bit and I adjusted the beater back a bit more. I raised the front of the kick drum a just little so it wasn't sitting flat on the floor, and the double bounce stopped.  I have never experienced this problem before and am not sure what took it away but I am fairly sure it had nothing to do with the Reso head being ported or not ported.
                     Nutty

Joeos5

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Re: bass drum pedal
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2008, 05:45 PM »
Hey, I want to thank you all for this thread.  I had the problem about the multiple bounce thing as well and I believe I just fixed it.  I had tried the tilting the bass drum thing but that didn't fix it.  I don't have a hole in the front head either as some say helps.  All I did was loosen the spring rension and now it works fine.  The problem mostly happened when I played heel up but now that's not a problem.  Anyways, Thanks again!! Joe

 

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