Topic: Teachers  (Read 2735 times)

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Carn

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Teachers
« on: April 30, 2002, 05:12 AM »
hey all, who currently has or had a drum teacher?

i have, great guy. im starting with rick lathams` "advanced funk studies" soon, and the moeller book.

he kinda has a "bartman" background, degree in music performance (etc etc), and he guides a lot of musical assembles and percussion groups.

rlhubley

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2002, 07:52 AM »
I have had teachers on and off.  I have studied formally at a University, and am actually tenatively planning to return to college and finish my degree beginning in the spring of 2003.  Teachers are one of the best and most efficient ways to advance your ability and understanding of the instrument.

Offline James Walker

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2002, 08:26 AM »
Good teachers will impart information, and will help to give a student direction in his/her studies.  There are lots of good teachers out there.

A very good teacher (IMHO) is one who imparts not only knowledge, but also understanding - not only how to play a samba on drum set, but why it is what it is, for example.  There are many very good teachers out there.

A great teacher is one who teaches the student to teach himself/herself, so that even once the student stops studying with the teacher, he/she continues to learn.  There aren't as many of these teachers out there, but they can be found if you look hard enough.
"I played with Holdsworth, Fripp, and Belew...I wish we drummers could play that differently. Drummers are starting to homogenize into the same guy, which frightens me." - Bill Bruford

Carn

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2002, 09:10 AM »
yup, my teacher oftenly says that his goal is that when he is done with a student, that he or she can pick up any book and finish it on their own.

About telling about different styles, not much teachers do that...it will just go like "this is jazz. nice isnt it", instead of telling where it originates from, why its called jazz in the first place, same with blues, african/latin, etc.





 

Offline Daddy0

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2002, 10:22 PM »
I had a teacher way back when -- he tried to teach me all those useless things like reading and rudiments. I was too young and full of . . . well some of those things we did in the 60's. I wanted to rock, and he helped me to be a good rock drummer.

Now, today, I'm still a good rock drummer. Unfortunately, what I really would like to be better at are those useless things like reading and rudiments.

I should go crawling back to my old drum teacher and beg for forgiveness! He is still around, still teaching and still probably the best jazz drummer in the area.

Offline Bart Elliott

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2002, 10:40 PM »
I had a teacher way back when -- he tried to teach me all those useless things like reading and rudiments. I was too young and full of . . . well some of those things we did in the 60's. I wanted to rock, and he helped me to be a good rock drummer.

Now, today, I'm still a good rock drummer. Unfortunately, what I really would like to be better at are those useless things like reading and rudiments.

I should go crawling back to my old drum teacher and beg for forgiveness! He is still around, still teaching and still probably the best jazz drummer in the area.

You know what, you might really make his day if you got in touch with him ... and just tell him that you appreciate all that he did for you ... and let him know he was right.

Kids always think they know more than they do; and their parents seem to get wiser in the childs eyes ... as they grow older. Isn't it funny how that works?  ;)

SteveG

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2002, 08:25 AM »
I believe it is essential to study with a teacher to become proficient on the drums. The catch is finding the right teacher when you are inexperienced as a drummer and are not sure what to look for in a teacher. There are plenty of medicine-man type drum teachers out there that should be taking lessons themselves and not teaching.

I have been studying with Joe Morello for about 3 1/2 years and his instruction has been so beneficial to my playing. Joe has also given me insight as to how to teach drums properly and as well as how to determine what areas the student need to improve upon.

A good teacher is like a good doctor. They should have a remedy for any drumming ailment you might have.


MuseFan

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2002, 03:59 PM »
Hey Carn........I didn't know you also post on this forum......welcome...... ;D

Well, about the the topic, I also have who teaches me a lot of different styles of music, so I can use all these techniques in my own music...........I really like him, he also played a lot of instuments, but his "main" instrument were/ (still) are drums........... ;D

Offline Carlos Benson

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2002, 12:08 PM »
I know Rick will be a great teacher ... his 80+ students a week prove that. But with all that's been posted here try to remember that the best teacher in the world is only as good as his student (or what his student PUTS OUT IN EFFORT and PRACTICE) ...  ;D.

Scribe

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2002, 12:04 AM »
I haven't had one good drum instructor and it's so frustrating. At first I thought it was me, but the guys I've dealt with have been liars and thieves who have a bad reputation in the area (I found out later). I'm now endeavoring to learn on my own through books and videos. I have a lot of nice equipment, I want to learn how to use it  :(

Offline Mister Acrolite

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2002, 06:23 AM »
When I was in middle school, I took lessons from a guy who was in high school, who was one of the best players in town. He taught me some basics from Roy Burns Advanced Rock and Roll Drumming, and then he gave me the keys to the kingdom: he got me started improvising. That was the best thing he could do for me, and I'm thankful to this day. When he graduated, the pickings were slim for teachers, so I taught myself, using all the books I could find.

And equally important, I was studying the playing of other drummers, by listening to records, going to concerts, etc. You're not going to get it all from one teacher - to have the tools you need, you need to be a sponge for information. Books will only show you so much - you need to study real drummers playing real music.

I think some people have exaggerated expectations of what a good teacher can do for your playing. Even with a good teacher, it's YOU that's got to do the work. If you don't, you won't get better, no matter how good your teacher is.

If you don't have the hunger to learn, to figure some of this stuff out for yourself, you'll never be able to compete with somebody who does. Don't just be a receptacle for information - get out there and actively seek all the information you can find, not just your teacher's opinions.

I think it's crucial to learn to read. Not because you're necessarily going to have to read a lot of music, but because it will give you an analytic understanding of what you're doing. And with it, it will give you an analytic understanding of what OTHER drummers are doing. That is a KEY skill - the ability to figure out what other drummers are doing, instead of just saying "wow, that was a cool lick - wonder how he did that?"

Pretty much ANY teacher can teach you to read. Once you get that down, there's enough drum books out there to keep you busy FOREVER.

Also, take advantage of videos. They didn't have these when I was learning to play - I'd have KILLED to be able to watch Steve Gadd play whenever I wanted to. I'm amazed that many student drummers I meet don't own any videos. The information is out there, and it's yours for the taking!
Hit on 2. Repeat on 4.
(instructions found written on Mr. A's snare drum)

Offline Tony

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2002, 07:35 AM »
But with all that's been posted here try to remember that the best teacher in the world is only as good as his student (or what his student PUTS OUT IN EFFORT and PRACTICE) ...  ;D.

I've been playing 20+ years and still take lessons.  I got so fed up with the "teachers" in Montgomery that I travel to Birmingham once every 2 months for a 2 hour lesson.  I also started teaching as a result of my experiences.  I found the teachers in this area to be "cookie cutter" and not really interested in the student as much as the $$.  I only have 4 students, but none of them waste my time.  I am very frank with new students or their parents (for the kiddies) :)  I am not interested in wasting my time or your money.  I'll teach you everything  I can, as long as you're willing to do the work to learn it.  Pretty simple philosophy, huh?
The techniques, though they play an important role in the early stage, should not be too restrictive, complex or mechanical. If we cling to them, we will become bound by their limitation.  Any technique, however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it.

Offline Daddy0

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2002, 10:34 PM »
I had a teacher way back when -- he tried to teach me all those useless things like reading and rudiments. I was too young and full of . . . well some of those things we did in the 60's. I wanted to rock, and he helped me to be a good rock drummer.

Now, today, I'm still a good rock drummer. Unfortunately, what I really would like to be better at are those useless things like reading and rudiments.

I should go crawling back to my old drum teacher and beg for forgiveness! He is still around, still teaching and still probably the best jazz drummer in the area.

You know what, you might really make his day if you got in touch with him ... and just tell him that you appreciate all that he did for you ... and let him know he was right.

Kids always think they know more than they do; and their parents seem to get wiser in the childs eyes ... as they grow older. Isn't it funny how that works?  ;)


Here's the follow-up:
I had heard that my old teacher (Jon Doren) was giving lessons at a particular music store so I stopped by there one day last week. They told me that he died about 15 months ago of cancer -- he was in his mid-50s.

Don't procrastinate! Take Bart's advice and look up those old positive influences in your life and let them know they mattered before it's too late.

Jon was an excellent jazz drummer. He was patient and professional in his teaching. The number of drummers whose lives he touched must be staggering.
He will be missed.

TBfan

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2002, 12:34 AM »
I had a teacher way back when -- he tried to teach me all those useless things like reading and rudiments. I was too young and full of . . . well some of those things we did in the 60's. I wanted to rock, and he helped me to be a good rock drummer.

Now, today, I'm still a good rock drummer. Unfortunately, what I really would like to be better at are those useless things like reading and rudiments.

I should go crawling back to my old drum teacher and beg for forgiveness! He is still around, still teaching ...

`this post sounds like my own past! i`m 18years now and played about 7 years with a teacher...but I was too young to know why I`m doing it... now, i know it !

drwalker

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2002, 07:50 AM »
I am 40 years old and still take music lessons!  I have a great teacher "Elmer Monk."  A rock drummer by trade but formally schooled and pushes me very hard with reading and sticking.  I have played music most of my life and I have never had a teacher like Elmer that pushes me to excel and really enjoys seeing his students progress.  (Thanks Elmer)

I did this when I was playing bass.  I would get a point where I did not feel I was growing with my instrument.  I decided to take some lessons just to get a new perspective on my instrument and learn a different style of music (Funk:Slap) and it did wonders.  IMHO

dw

alanwatkinsuk

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2002, 05:45 PM »
Being a very old orchestral chap who only teaches in that sector I have to teach reading and rudiments but I find it makes it easier if you let the student "ad lib" as well rather than just sticking rigidly to a reading and rudiment grind.

I know lots of people manage without reading, and manage extremely well, but I do think it is a wonderful asset to have and one that will get you lots of extra jobs.

Of course quite a lot of students get bored with orchestral stuff and want to do something more exciting and then I think it's important (if you can) for the teacher to send them to a specialist in whatever they want to do.  

Just as students look back on teachers differently, I can say that when I was in my twenties (many decades ago) I didn't do teaching because I viewed everyone as a potential "rival" but now I find it extremely rewarding and look forward to sharing such as I know.

I suspect that whether in the School Room or in the Music Room we remember our best teachers all our lives.
Yes, don't forget that old teacher.  They sometimes try very hard.  

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins



BigBillInBoston

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2002, 07:37 AM »
Great subject. My first (and to date only) drum teacher I found in a small town Iowa public school starting in 5th grade. He was not only a great teacher but a great guy. Friendly, positive and very involved in drums and drumming. Played a lot, did clinics, organized groups and served as a contest organizer and judge. He went on to be a professor at a local University where I had the opportunity to learn from him again. I found him to not only be a great teacher but a great "role model" for life.

I hadn't been in contact with him for over 30 years but in the last year as I have gotten more involved with drumming again I've been in contact with him and had a chance to tell him how important knowing him had been to me. I am so glad I did. We had a great chat and a lot of fun reminiscing.

Some Drummer Cafe folks who are PAS members may know him...is name is Jim Coffin. He was/is active in PAS for many years as an indusrty rep. After leaving college teaching is the 70's he worked in California for Premier then Yamaha as a clinician and interface guy with endorsers and the general drumming community. He's also published a lot of articles in various percussion publications.

Great man... I'm glad I had a chance to know him.

QuadGod083

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2002, 02:06 PM »
In my opinion, the ONLY way to learn percussion is with a teacher.  Preferably one who has been classicly trained.  That's what I did and I think that learning all areas of percussion has helped to give me a better understanding of how to play drumset.

alanwatkinsuk

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Re:Teachers
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2002, 03:02 PM »
My experience has been this:  all drum styles in some way or another come out of the basic cudiments or are variations on the basic rudiments.  I just feel that if people can feel happy with the rudiments they can play virtually anything put in front of them, not only on drums/drumset but on tuned percussion as well.

I appreciate that I am not called upon to improvise much (the great snare drum part in Nielsen 5 is ad lib however) but I also think that if the rudiments are part of your art you might possibly improvise with much more ease.

What I do know for absolutely certain is that it is a lot more difficult to "unteach" people than teach them (twice as hard at least for both player and instructor).

Just as Oscar Petersen doesn't read but plays wonderful piano, I am sure there are those who defeat that argument but for most people I would think rudiments/reading can only be of benefit, in whatever musical area you subsequently employ them.

I know that orchestral/show etc is very, very different but at a blind rehearsal of a work you do not know you have to read two or three bars ahead to work out the "sticking" before you get there.  Not many people get the parts in advance.

There are some pretty complicated drum patterns in rock/hip-hop/garage so far as I know and I would have thought that reading ahead would be a good thing.

I do believe that it is important to start with just single strokes because isn't that where a teacher seeks and tries to get a player to sound the same whether or not he or she has a weaker hand?

It seems to me that if you cannot match the hands in single strokes you will find it very difficult to match them in rolls, whether crush or open, and so far as I know if you cannot match the hands in rolls (whether crush or open and whether traditional or matched) it may not sound too well.  

Usually with a beginner you are trying to teach them to employ wrist pressures and techniques of which they have no knowledge whatsoever and I do not think that is easy.

I employ a very simple technique with single stroke rolls.  I step outside the room and if I cannot tell which is the left hand and which is the right I think they might have cracked that bit of it.  It is only my opinion but if you can't make evenness on the single stroke rolls you will have very little chance on double rolls whether they be crushed or open.

I appreciate that much of rock/hip-hop/garage does not feature rolls but the ability to do a good roll surely helps with many other ornaments if only for freedom of wrist technique.

I am not putting down people who may be tremendous players in their own style: only expressing a personal view.  I can't play hip-hop or garage as well as people on here (I probably can't play it at all) but I'm okay with Gaiete Parisienne or with the Overture: Pique Dame by Suppe with some challenging snare drum solos at every dynamic level.  
The only reason I can play them is rudiments and I believe that rudiments are a good starting point.

I don't think it matters WHAT the teacher plays but I think it is definitely helpful if they are performing musicians because my experience has been that what is on the "page" or diagram is not necessarily what is played on the night and that is where you need the help and experience of a performing player.

 

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