Topic: What's your opinion on having students memorize drum beats/grooves?  (Read 4185 times)

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Offline Chris Whitten

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Re: What's your opinion on having students memorize drum beats/grooves?
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2008, 10:08 PM »
younger people today tend to not want to take the time to perfect something and to learn the finer nuances of something. 

I have observed that, although to be fair 35 years ago I was not much different.
I learnt more things through playing than I did through practicing exercises.
I would have benefited from more practice and a slower pace of development, which is why I agree with that approach now (with hindsight  ::)).

Offline Matt Self (Gaddabout)

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Re: What's your opinion on having students memorize drum beats/grooves?
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2008, 11:09 AM »
1) that younger people today tend to not want to take the time to perfect something and to learn the finer nuances of something.

For posterity, I think every generation has made the same observation of the generations that follow them since the beginning of the history of man.
Odd meter isn't broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. - David Crigger

Offline hockeyplaya13

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Re: What's your opinion on having students memorize drum beats/grooves?
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2008, 07:46 PM »
Well I didn't have time to read all the replies, but I feel that it's important for people to learn/"memorize" certain beats/grooves. Granted, I'm still a student about to enter college, but I've been "really" drumming for about 5 years now. I now kind of have my own "stock" beats that I go back to when I play certain styles of music. I don't play the exact same rhythm or groove every time, but it's usually close to the same thing. I think beginners need to learn some standard grooves from different styles and then learn how to apply them to whatever style they are playing to. Or learn how to mimic or complement the bass/guitar/other musicians.

I'm more of a rudimental/drumline guy than a drumset guy, so the first illustration that came to mind was something of this sort: It's like having kids learn to memorize the rudiments- paraddidles, flamacues, pataflaflas, flam taps, cheeses, etc. Of course those are no good if they don't know when to apply them but it's where they have to start. I can play along (snare) with any stand tune and play something pretty choppy, but it's all composed of the standard 40 or a few of my new favorite hybrid rudiments. But if the kids don't know how to put them together and make something musical, then they are still useless.

Zappa-fan

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Re: What's your opinion on having students memorize drum beats/grooves?
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2008, 04:43 AM »
I read some months ago an article with a retired teacher. He encouraged his students to pick an exercise or an idea (groove) an work that out in all the possible variations; playing the possibilities out of your head. The reason behind this approach is get away from the paper and music books. Don't play what is dictated, but use your creativity.

But the particular taught at a conservatory. This approach is I think not suited for beginners or young students.

Offline Matt Self (Gaddabout)

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Re: What's your opinion on having students memorize drum beats/grooves?
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2008, 06:44 PM »
I read some months ago an article with a retired teacher. He encouraged his students to pick an exercise or an idea (groove) an work that out in all the possible variations; playing the possibilities out of your head. The reason behind this approach is get away from the paper and music books. Don't play what is dictated, but use your creativity.

But the particular taught at a conservatory. This approach is I think not suited for beginners or young students.

I don't think that's a novel idea, and it's very common among guitarists and other lead instruments. I had a teacher who was a master tabla player, so that element of his teaching has always been implemented in my own methods -- and I deal almost strictly with beginners. It's about having students take ownership of what they're playing. When they're asked to think in the abstract, they internalize most everything they've learned by rote. It's very much like learning a language -- it's primary purpose is to communicate, but it's second (and most powerful) purpose is to teach someone how to think. The more you think in a language, the better you'll be able to communicate with it.
Odd meter isn't broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. - David Crigger

Offline Todd Norris

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Re: What's your opinion on having students memorize drum beats/grooves?
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2008, 11:08 PM »
For posterity, I think every generation has made the same observation of the generations that follow them since the beginning of the history of man.

HA! I've turned into my dad! 

I'll 2nd the creativity thing.  I have my kids make up their own variations of a theme all the time. 


Zappa-fan

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Re: What's your opinion on having students memorize drum beats/grooves?
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2008, 04:40 PM »
Quote
I don't think that's a novel idea, ........................................................................ The more you think in a language, the better you'll be able to communicate with it.

Thanks for your response, made me reflect on my thoughts. At my first lesson my teacher told me if you can sing it you can play it. So sing what I play, he asked me ...... next you play and sing that beat.

But this retired conservatory teacher (can't remember his name), he would let you experience what you could do with a basic idea. Assuming I understood  him correct (my current teacher was a former student of him, so we've discussed his approach and applied it a bit), he would let you pick a paradiddle and work it in your head: start with basic groove, then while your playing add doubles, apply permutations, make 15/ 16 groove, play the paradiddle and play with a other limb 5, 7, 11 note phrasing over the paradiddle, et cetera. Some of these ideas are to advanced for the beginners, but learning to improvise i.e. learning the language, should be encouraged from the start as you're teaching.


Offline JustAHobby

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Re: What's your opinion on having students memorize drum beats/grooves?
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2009, 01:47 PM »
When the students were jamming with friends, I wonder if the bass player was using the same groove all of the time?  I think it takes some time to get used to playing with people before you can go outside the comfort zone.  If they are all new to playing with people it could be that everyone found something comfortable and stuck with it throughout.

Offline Matt Self (Gaddabout)

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Re: What's your opinion on having students memorize drum beats/grooves?
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2009, 08:00 PM »
Thanks for your response, made me reflect on my thoughts. At my first lesson my teacher told me if you can sing it you can play it. So sing what I play, he asked me ...... next you play and sing that beat.

But this retired conservatory teacher (can't remember his name), he would let you experience what you could do with a basic idea. Assuming I understood  him correct (my current teacher was a former student of him, so we've discussed his approach and applied it a bit), he would let you pick a paradiddle and work it in your head: start with basic groove, then while your playing add doubles, apply permutations, make 15/ 16 groove, play the paradiddle and play with a other limb 5, 7, 11 note phrasing over the paradiddle, et cetera. Some of these ideas are to advanced for the beginners, but learning to improvise i.e. learning the language, should be encouraged from the start as you're teaching.



Well, I always give my students framework for their creativity. It's never a free for all. Basically, I make them compose something ... 8 bars, 16 bars, whatever we agree on, based on the specific material we're studying at the time. Even if it's just stringing together and re-mixing phrases or passages from a book, at least IMO it's taking them to a more abstract place than having them just learn Ex 1A, 1B, 1C, etc. etc.
Odd meter isn't broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. - David Crigger

 

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