Topic: Where is it all going...??  (Read 11443 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Dave Sharma

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 211
  • i love space echo
    • Dave Sharma
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2008, 11:34 AM »
an effort at summing up big ideas in a short response:

things are not easy now.  the general climate of financial fear means that some of the lamer-but-well-paying gigs (holiday parties, etc) have disappeared.  Never things I enjoy as an 'artist' but as a craftsman, i got no problem making a good living do the mundane.  beats working a mundane office job... except that you get benefits and a dependable salary.  

but i digress.  the industry is shrinking from it's previous form on all fronts.

BUT::

this is an industry, and if you engage in any method for pay or barter, you're doing BUSINESS.  so it's time to think like a business.  Plan, strategize, assess, re-assess.  

where 90% of people see a problem, you have the opportunity to be in that 10% that see an opportunity.  not a solution, per se, but a chance to do something different... and if you don't, someone else WILL.  think like google and change things entirely.

what doesn't work in this industry?  Record labels?  ok...start your own.  it'll be a pain (i know this from running a small label), but once you secure distribution, your label exists.  sell CD's on cdbaby; sell mp3's and mp4's through itunes/amazon/emusic etc.  start a subscription service on your website that gives upfront-paying fans something extra (free tickets to shows, unreleased tracks, stickers/buttons/pins etc).  All ways to generate revenue as an artist and potentially grow a fanbase.

Yes, the album is essentially a dead format... and for all but the most compelling of projects, good riddance to bad rubbish.  We, as a purchasing public, allowed major labels to develop that model into a bloated monster.  No one in the world needed a jessica simpson "album," save for the up-and-coming songwriters who were able to put foot on the table w/ a placement in there.  

Let albums be albums and let's all hail the return of the single.  let's hail the demise of the CD and the re-emergence of vinyl... even 7" records.  yes, they're a growing percentage of a shrinking market, but still-- the #'s are on the up.  press vinyl; make it a collector's item.  include free mp3 downloads w/ the release (something i'm doing for a release coming out next week).  develop really great artwork and make your item something worth buying.

we're in a situation where we can either bemoan the death of an industry, or we can build a new one in it's place.  If you've got the hustle as an artist, YOU can make it happen.  Read up on what derek sivers @ CD baby has to say, check out taxi, etc.  do it yourself!  because no one's gonna do it for you.

and as chris said, diversify, diversify, diversify.  I know a lot of people making a living playing music, but none who are ONLY playing.  the day and age of the Jim Keltners and Jeff Porcaro's may truly be over... in order to survive as a muscian, you need to be a player, educator, manager, promoter, publicist... the list goes on.

but it CAN be done.

just not the same way it was before.

(and that's not exactly a bad thing).




frankbriggs

  • Guest
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2008, 03:01 PM »
and as chris said, diversify, diversify, diversify.  I know a lot of people making a living playing music, but none who are ONLY playing.  the day and age of the Jim Keltners and Jeff Porcaro's may truly be over... in order to survive as a muscian, you need to be a player, educator, manager, promoter, publicist... the list goes on.

but it CAN be done.

just not the same way it was before.

(and that's not exactly a bad thing).

Well yes, I agree and actually have been doing it for a number of years.
The Renaissance man is a necessary approach these days... I think. There are still some premium gigs out there and even more qualified people to fill them.

Selling music direct (and basically everything else) will be the future.

I guess we are tapped out of ideas. The post from "gatorsnot"...great name:) is right on.
Cds are already dead but not everyone knows it yet.

And I really hope this doesn't come of as bemoaning. I embrace change most of the time but there is an extraordinary amount of change going on right now, a lot to digest.
The internet isn't much different than the wild west in some ways.

I still make a living but like you pointed out I am now engineer, producer, song writer, record label, distributor, publisher, video editor, web designer, ..oh yeah and I play the drums!!:) almost forgot.

I think it is pretty clear where it is all going .. at least to me.

I am still curious about local scenes though. To me that is the heartbeat of it all.
I know about LA and NY a little already.






Offline Chris Whitten

  • Honorary VIP
  • Posts: 6445
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2008, 05:24 PM »
By the way Frank, great (long) post.
I concur with everything you said. My experiences are very similar.
I admit I'm a glass half empty kind of guy, so I don't mind these discussions. Being the person that I am, I tend to think the contrary view is unrealistic; a rebirth of the industry, but in the end I'm not all doom and gloom. As has been said, music and musicians will survive.
Regarding local scenes, I'm not sure if my input is going to enlighten you any.
My take on the Aussie scene is that it is quiet.
We are so far away from other scenes.
Born and bred Aussies are resourceful, so bands have broken out (AC/DC, Wolfmother, Kylie etc...) and individual musicians and recording engineers/producers have moved away to further their careers.
I was hoping the internet would shrink the world some more, and Australia would seem less isolated, but the net here is under resourced, therefore slow and expensive.
My last few years in the UK scene were no better.
For at least ten years DJ's had replaced musicians.
The dance clubs were much more popular than live music venues. DJ's who turned record makers were also successful selling their records and gaining respect. I even found myself dealing with DJ's who had been hired to A&R at large record companies.
Not to diss DJ's - I count a few as friends and I honestly love a lot of that music - but some of these guys I dealt with had no concept of basic music theory like chords or melody, and had little understanding of record production beyond drum programming and sampling. I watched a few disasters while they tried to A&R bands made up of guitars, bass and drums.
Anyway......
The DJ/Club scene in the UK has declined rapidly over the last five years.
At least one DJ I know has formed a regular band, is trying to write normal songs with guitars, pianos and string arrangements.  :o
I don't know what else to add, except to say I'm interested in Mr Crigger's thoughts, as well as other regular Cafe contributors.

frankbriggs

  • Guest
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2008, 03:13 PM »
Thanks Chris,
I think the new technology is exciting. The playing fields are getting leveled and the whole business is shrinking. There is a lot of great music of all genres being made today but it is like finding a needle in a haystack. I am a big Rock and Pop fan. I love songs and bands. Live performance is something that can't be downloaded and I think that will get stronger eventually.

BTW There are a couple teachers here (outside of the schools) doing group classes with bands. He teaches them tunes and does a showcase once in a while at a blues club. It is a great idea. The club is usually packed, the students get a chance to have that band experience and play in front of an audience.

I think it is called "Join the Band" or something like that.
If anyone is looking for something different as far as teaching goes and promoting live music. I think this is a good idea to try to launch in your area.

I just heard about Quincy Jones' call to Barack Obama to create a position for US Secretary of The Arts. http://www.quincyjones.com/?p=894
I like that idea.. we have had Secretaries of War..why not a Secretary of Art?



Offline Chris Whitten

  • Honorary VIP
  • Posts: 6445
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2008, 03:54 PM »
Probably because they don't have a budget.  :-\

I had some absolutely seminal experiences in my early drumming days being taught to play in an ensemble.
They used to have these weekend workshops for kids, I don't know if they still have them.
Anyway, luckily my parents signed me up for a few. They involved a team of studio and/or jazz musicians. Back then they were one and the same.  ;D
One I particularly remember back in the early 70's involved the band Soft Machine (John Marshall on drums). On the first morning they played for us and gave a talk. Then we were split off into instrument groups. The Softs decided to concentrate on one song; 'Chameleon' by Herbie Hancock. Actually primarily the main section only.
At the time I could barely play any drum groove. It was the first time I'd ever learnt a groove with an off-beat element (the first snare hit) and the first time I'd ever had to make my drumming work with other instruments (bass of course).
We spent the rest of day one discussing drums, drum grooves, and working on the Headhunters tune.
At the beginning of day two we started working on the song in various ensembles.
In the afternoon of day two we went into performance mode and everyone got to have a go at playing 'Chameleon' in front of parents and other attendees.
There were keyboard players, guitarists and brass players, so we learnt about playing for soloists.
Well it was a thrill to learn to perform, and quite frankly a massive thrill to spend two days up close and personal with such experienced and well known musicians.

Offline KevinD

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 723
  • I love the Drummer Cafe!
    • My Space/bigwedge.com
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2008, 10:43 PM »
Well this is a great thread, I think we’ve spoken about some of these elements separately over the past few years (copying/piracy, technological advances, the decline of live playing) but this is the first time we’ve woven them together, finding the solution may be tougher though. With that said I think there has been a lot of thought put into the responses.

I don’t think earning a living as a musician or in any of the arts has ever been easy, but  I think today there are more obstacles to overcome. I grew up in the Catskill Mountains in New York, a large resort area, my first drum teachers made their living playing at the hotels. (This was in the mid 80s) It was a job, none of them were rich but it afforded each of them the ability to buy a house in a middle class neighborhood and live a comfortable lifestyle. Times were certainly different then, there were usually two or three drummers working various rooms in each of the hotels during any given time, sometimes more during peak periods.  For many of those musicians the hotels were looked upon as safe and reliable employment that would always be there, much like auto workers used to look at the car companies….well things certainly have changed. Most of those hotels are all gone, and most people nowadays realize there are no guarantees with any jobs, and much less so in the arts community.

Many changes have come about since then, most have not made things easier for musicians, and unfortunately the choice for the musician is to adapt or choose another line of work.

So where is the music industry going? Well I wish I knew, the model has changed dramatically over the past 8 or 9 years. While there will still continue to be a few big acts in popular music to be signed and developed every year by the big record companies in the traditional manner every year, I think the model for most others especially in the idioms that have a smaller market share like Jazz will require more creative methods.

We’ve spoken about the fact that the technology advances have been somewhat of a double edged sword, making things easier to prate but also making it easier to get the word out that you have a product to sell. Some do it better than others.

The traditional model of a record company marketing the music to the masses is no longer valid. I think the model going forward will be closer to how the band Fish became such a huge entity without the benefit of a major label and virtually no radio airplay. Instead of a huge marketing budget, the fans spread the word, the fans told each other about the band, they did the networking and it obviously worked. I cannot say I was a fan of the band but you have to admire how they did it.  This was before the boom of social networking on the web really took hold.  A large part of the huge success of the Obama campaign was that his team of supporters expertly used social networking sites on the web to create a buzz about him and get people spreading the word about him.

How to solve the problem of trying to earn a living as a musician trying to support a mortgage and a family?….A tougher question.  I think the player is going to have to hustle ever harder by engaging in the aforementioned E-sessions, composing, writing articles and educational endeavors, in addition to the standard gigs-all things that Frank seems to be doing today. 

The path to success (by your own definition) is still there but it is much less clear than it once was. True, it means you work harder for possibly less money, but in reality that is pretty much what everyone has to do irrespective of their occupation in today’s economy.



"If it weren't for Thomas Edison we'd all be watching TV in the dark." - Attributed to various people over the years.

http://www.myspace.com/bigwedge

frankbriggs

  • Guest
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2008, 11:41 PM »
Well this is a great thread, ---
The path to success (by your own definition) is still there but it is much less clear than it once was.

Thanks Chris W, Chris D, Matt, Kevin and everyone who took part in this.
I think the ensemble style teaching is a great model. I hope it spreads.

I appreciate your feedback... at my age i would like to come up with ways to help nurture scenes for kids to create music. Nothing looks great right now because the economy is bad. Musicians and music depend on disposable income mostly. When people are tightening their belts all the arts suffer (except for maybe ..movies). it will come back, it may look different though.

I had to define "Success" for myself awhile ago for my own sanity. i have had a major record deal, toured with a number one band, had creatively fulfilling projects, published books blah blah blah. I have also had rich friends some with with Grammys and Platunum albums who were not happy and didn't feel successful.

I came to the conclusion that "success" isn't measured by money, experiences or things, it is measured by your own happiness..it is a personal thing. the good news is happiness is achievable by anyone. Sorry if I sound like Dr Phil but it is true.

More on this..

Offline eardrum

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 1754
  • It's not too late to get better!
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2008, 01:57 AM »
Great discussion. Thanks Frank and all.  I wish I had more time to dive into the subject.  Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on what time of day you ask me, I don't make a living with music.  Being a consumer however I may have a different perspective.  First, I'm not a fan of pop music.  The only live music I hear (not counting my band) is at the jazz clubs, at church, some of the local festivals, the local colleges, etc.  I just came back from a fantastic concert with a local junior college jazz orchestra - Louie Bellson was suppose to be the guest artist but broke his hip recently so Dave Weckl filled in. It was in support of the college scholarship fund.  Man it was a great concert!!! 

Here's an intersting sociological observation... Each of my kids (I've got 5) has very different tastes in music.  My youngest loves (right now) Getz, Joao, Ella, Louie and set one of my radio presets to old station playing old jazz.  She also likes a few artist here sister likes (Kings of Convenience, etc).  One of my kids is more into punk but went with me to the Weckl gig and loved it. Another is into heavier and spacier stuff.  Etc., Etc.  My point is that each one has a different playlist and they grew up under the same roof - not on the other side of town!  When I was growing up, my brother and sister and I listened (mostly) to the same stuff and so did everyone else.  Market segmentation is a huge factor in marketing a product.

Second, CDs, LPs etc, print news, books and magazines included are all on there way out (I sure hope blogs go to, I really don't care about 99.99999999999% of what is going on in lives of 99.999999999% of the people online- I digress).  We are in the beginning of the transition.  My kids all had to Carry very heavy backpacks (very bad for your back) full of books to school and that ticks me off greatly.  Whether it is the publishers strangle hold on the state schools system or some conspiracy, it's STUPID. Wasting all those trees when most of the kids have Iphones that could download the books.  I get most of my music via Emusic.com.  $10 per month and I get 40 mp3 tunes from their expanding library - not the most popular stuff but great for me.  I've been telling my wife for years to stop buying Videos and now DVDs.  I've been renting from Netflix (many instructional drum videos) and now streaming legal videos and don't think there is any need for me to fill up cabinets and boxes with the stuff.  We also get cable with more channels than I have time to watch. The future however is a utility service. To have electric, gas, phone service in the past was not an entitlement - now it seems that it's a basic right. Of course they want you to think that so everyone is required to pay... Eventually, TV, News, Music, Education... You will pay a service provider and get everything over your network pipeline.  Microsoft has been adding 10,000 servers a month to data centers in the US and Europe partly because you won't be buying their software, you'll be renting it.  Of course having a magazine laying around when you take a dump is convenient now but is quickly going to become a thing of the past. 

Live music. There will always be a market for skilled musicians playing good music at local events but it may never again be a lucrative career so many. The phenomena of the mega star, the huge stadium concert, etc is really a modern invention (Elvis??).  So is the working studio musician making a big salary.  I'm not saying it will go away entirely but I wouldn't be surprised if the studio work is almost entirely replaced by machines and big live shows essentially fade away and become events experienced on your living room couch. 

Many of you making a living in the biz have to deal with the present (paying rent) and the future (what's around the corner) and my heart goes out to you.  It's a very tough gig.  I have to deal with this in my business and it keeps me up at night and I'm in a fairly stable industry.  My hope is that we (as a society) don't forget how great it is to hear live music played by skilled pros.  This of course requires that we are able to keep a standard of living that enables us to pay you guys.

Offline Matt Self (Gaddabout)

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 2755
    • My Space
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2008, 12:39 PM »
I came to the conclusion that "success" isn't measured by money, experiences or things, it is measured by your own happiness..it is a personal thing. the good news is happiness is achievable by anyone. Sorry if I sound like Dr Phil but it is true.

Yes, but money buys a lot of great therapy to help you discover what makes you happy. And when you find it, then you have the money to afford to enjoy it.

 ;D

Seriously, money can't buy happiness, but when every day is a struggle, the lack of money can make it very, very difficult to enjoy the things that do make you happy. Spend 5 years taking care of a disabled spouse on an income better suited for a 20-something single and you'll know what I'm talking about!
Odd meter isn't broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. - David Crigger

Offline chilledbongo

  • Bronze Member
  • Posts: 218
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2008, 01:03 PM »
i have no idea where it's all going. but i do know one thing: i am now embarrassed - that's right - embarrassed to shop for cd's in the retail outlets that still carry them. there is no one - i mean no one - even looking at them today except old people who obviously don't download and wouldn't know a nano from a nanny.

cd's are like geritol now - and i am very sad about that because one of life's great pleasures for me has always been buying music, whether vinyl or cd, especially used.

i deplore mp3s from an audio point of view. it's too bad the current generation has been brainwashed by apple to think that an mp3 is a viable form of listening to music.

seems to be more great indie music out there now, thanks to technology making it so simple to record. but somehow, i'd prefer to go back to the old days when a new 'album' was an event.

i think live music is doing fine, at least where i live. though i haven't bought a 'concert' ticket to see an overpriced and overpaid superstar in years.
less is more

Offline Matt Self (Gaddabout)

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 2755
    • My Space
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2008, 01:14 PM »
For the, um, record, the large publishers probably have the most incentive to do away with CDs. Why? Because it's hardware, and hardware is far more insecure than software. CDs are required to play on many different platforms, so you can't encrypt them. It's impossible to protect data on a CD, DVD, or any other physical data device.

If we did away with CDs, the ability to rip them would go away immediately. iTunes is the standard, IMO, because it's so hard to convert an iTunes-licensed tune to a more open format. It's possible, just not easily accessible like ripping a CD to the hard drive. What needs to be done is some additional legislation that disallows the burning of copyrighted digital content to CDs and DVDs (i.e. you can still burn a CD from iTunes) OR force the hardware industry (i.e. CD makers) to adopt a format that only plays encrypted MP3s and MP4s.

I say all that knowing the problem really isn't in the U.S. It never really has been. It's a global issue. You can lay down all this legislation in the states, but you can't do anything in Korea, Taiwan, or other countries that are the core of the bootleg industry.
Odd meter isn't broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. - David Crigger

Offline Chris Whitten

  • Honorary VIP
  • Posts: 6445
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2008, 04:23 PM »
i am now embarrassed - that's right - embarrassed to shop for cd's in the retail outlets that still carry them. there is no one - i mean no one - even looking at them today except old people who obviously don't download and wouldn't know a nano from a nanny.

OK I guess I AM old(er), but there are some very fancy CD stores near me and I shop at them regularly.
When I get the CD home I live with it for a while, then convert my favourite tracks to iTunes so I can listen to the music around the house or on my iPod.

Regarding the demise of CD and DVD, I agree it's because it is hardware. Don't forget hardware is an extra cost that isn't incurred by conversion to online download.
I'm sure record companies and software producers would love to see the back of the CD because it costs a lot of money to buy the disc, have it burned and have the accompanying artwork and text designed and printed.

Offline Matt Self (Gaddabout)

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 2755
    • My Space
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2008, 04:25 PM »
OK I guess I AM old(er), but there are some very fancy CD stores near me and I shop at them regularly.
When I get the CD home I live with it for a while, then convert my favourite tracks to iTunes so I can listen to the music around the house or on my iPod.

Regarding the demise of CD and DVD, I agree it's because it is hardware. Don't forget hardware is an extra cost that isn't incurred by conversion to online download.
I'm sure record companies and software producers would love to see the back of the CD because it costs a lot of money to buy the disc, have it burned and have the accompanying artwork and text designed and printed.

Chris, how many times have you purchased a CD for one song and ended up liking other songs much better? The B-side days are pretty much over. That's a really sad day for me.
Odd meter isn't broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. - David Crigger

donelk

  • Guest
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2008, 07:12 PM »
I've been reading this thread and thinking... a lot.

I am not a professional. After college I made a conscious decision to not pursue music as a profession. I was worried about lifestyle, security, family, money, money, money. I was actually close to taking a big casino gig, but chose not to. I decided to keep music a hobby and not a vocation. After all these years I don't regret my decision.

So, now I have a day job and play 5-10 times a month. I live in a college town of 150,000. I play soul, blues, funk, lots of jazz, classical, etc. etc. I record from time to time.

Two weekends ago I played a small jazz club. Last Friday I played R&B in a local bar. Saturday I played two basketball games with the local university "pep" band.  Total earnings for all these gigs combined? About $100.

My decision, many years ago, has helped keep music fun for me.

I wish I had valuable input to this thread. I guess my only contribution is to ask... Do you still enjoy what you are doing? What would you do if not music?


Offline Chris Whitten

  • Honorary VIP
  • Posts: 6445
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2008, 07:49 PM »
I don't regret a thing about my choice of a music career.
If a person considers choosing music as a career, I think it's good if they can't see themselves doing anything else. It's like a vocation.
That way, you don't mind dealing with the lows and hardships, both of which tend to accumulate in the early years of a music career, and tend to lesson as you gain experience and a resume.
Once you start to think about the other things you could be doing, it's best to go do them - no shame in that.
There's a ton of downside I don't want to be dealing with in the music biz any more, which is why I play less frequently and have diversified into non music related industries.


frankbriggs

  • Guest
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2008, 07:53 PM »
Yes, but money buys a lot of great therapy to help you discover what makes you happy. And when you find it, then you have the money to afford to enjoy it.
 ;D
Seriously, money can't buy happiness, but when every day is a struggle, the lack of money can make it very, very difficult to enjoy the things that do make you happy. Spend 5 years taking care of a disabled spouse on an income better suited for a 20-something single and you'll know what I'm talking about!

I do understand. One of the reasons for this post is to brainstorm to see if there are any solutions for creating a stable income doing what you love to do.

I am hoping I will have a list at the end of this and advice other than "don't quit your day gig". Some of the guys I play with are extremely busy right now...so it isn't all bleak. Happiness is the ultimate goal I think. If that requires making more money maybe we can figure out how to do that right here.

frankbriggs

  • Guest
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2008, 09:17 PM »
Quote
For the, um, record, the large publishers probably have the most incentive to do away with CDs. Why? Because it's hardware, and hardware is far more insecure than software. CDs are required to play on many different platforms, so you can't encrypt them. It's impossible to protect data on a CD, DVD, or any other physical data device.

I say all that knowing the problem really isn't in the U.S. It never really has been. It's a global issue. You can lay down all this legislation in the states, but you can't do anything in Korea, Taiwan, or other countries that are the core of the bootleg industry.

Hadrien Feraud's new album is available on iTunes but you can't burn a CD from it (at least that is what I heard). You can put it on your iPod but you can't make a CD. Personally I think they are on to something. Like you said kind of..proprietary devices.

If you download to a portable device ie; iPod. You can then plug it into you living room or car.

Honestly though I see it going to subscriptions. We will be subscribing to 'music" and subscribing to "movies" and subscribing to "software".

Quote
Great discussion. Thanks Frank and all.  I wish I had more time to dive into the subject.  Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on what time of day you ask me, I don't make a living with music.  Being a consumer however I may have a different perspective.  First, I'm not a fan of pop music.  The only live music I hear (not counting my band) is at the jazz clubs, at church, some of the local festivals, the local colleges, etc.  I just came back from a fantastic concert with a local junior college jazz orchestra - Louie Bellson was suppose to be the guest artist but broke his hip recently so Dave Weckl filled in. It was in support of the college scholarship fund.  Man it was a great concert!!!  

Here's an intersting sociological observation... Each of my kids (I've got 5) has very different tastes in music.  My youngest loves (right now) Getz, Joao, Ella, Louie and set one of my radio presets to old station playing old jazz.  She also likes a few artist here sister likes (Kings of Convenience, etc).  One of my kids is more into punk but went with me to the Weckl gig and loved it. Another is into heavier and spacier stuff.  Etc., Etc.  My point is that each one has a different playlist and they grew up under the same roof - not on the other side of town!  When I was growing up, my brother and sister and I listened (mostly) to the same stuff and so did everyone else.  Market segmentation is a huge factor in marketing a product.

Second, CDs, LPs etc, print news, books and magazines included are all on there way out (I sure hope blogs go to, I really don't care about 99.99999999999% of what is going on in lives of 99.999999999% of the people online- I digress).  We are in the beginning of the transition.  My kids all had to Carry very heavy backpacks (very bad for your back) full of books to school and that ticks me off greatly.  Whether it is the publishers strangle hold on the state schools system or some conspiracy, it's STUPID. Wasting all those trees when most of the kids have Iphones that could download the books.  I get most of my music via Emusic.com.  $10 per month and I get 40 mp3 tunes from their expanding library - not the most popular stuff but great for me.  I've been telling my wife for years to stop buying Videos and now DVDs.  I've been renting from Netflix (many instructional drum videos) and now streaming legal videos and don't think there is any need for me to fill up cabinets and boxes with the stuff.  We also get cable with more channels than I have time to watch. The future however is a utility service. To have electric, gas, phone service in the past was not an entitlement - now it seems that it's a basic right. Of course they want you to think that so everyone is required to pay... Eventually, TV, News, Music, Education... You will pay a service provider and get everything over your network pipeline.  Microsoft has been adding 10,000 servers a month to data centers in the US and Europe partly because you won't be buying their software, you'll be renting it.  Of course having a magazine laying around when you take a dump is convenient now but is quickly going to become a thing of the past.  

Live music. There will always be a market for skilled musicians playing good music at local events but it may never again be a lucrative career so many. The phenomena of the mega star, the huge stadium concert, etc is really a modern invention (Elvis??).  So is the working studio musician making a big salary.  I'm not saying it will go away entirely but I wouldn't be surprised if the studio work is almost entirely replaced by machines and big live shows essentially fade away and become events experienced on your living room couch.  

Many of you making a living in the biz have to deal with the present (paying rent) and the future (what's around the corner) and my heart goes out to you.  It's a very tough gig.  I have to deal with this in my business and it keeps me up at night and I'm in a fairly stable industry.  My hope is that we (as a society) don't forget how great it is to hear live music played by skilled pros.  This of course requires that we are able to keep a standard of living that enables us to pay you guys.

Thanks eardrum... this is all great and right on. I don't have kids but I have access to plenty:) My girlfriends kids and all my nieces, nephews etc. you are totally correct.

Part of the reason I think is the internet has allowed people to like what they like.
To be more clear.. when radio ruled the world or the US programmers (and now Clear Channel) put music in categories, Rock & Roll, Jazz, Country, R&B. Classical. This helps market it to consumers. Many musicians know that if you don't fit comfortably into a category it is hard to get signed and/or radio play.

Each of those main genres has since been broken down in to more and more specialized sub-genres, now there is Metal, Death Metal, Speed metal, Country Pop, Country Rock, Smooth Jazz, Swing, BeBop, Hard Bop, New Age, Fusion, Progressive, Funk, Hip Hop, Rap, Down Tempo (???)....on and on. They all have their fans but are smaller or more specialized groups.

Side note-I had a discussion with someone about the "star" thing. They told me that writers like Ernest Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald enjoyed a life like many of today's rock stars during the 20s and 30s. The movie business came along and changed that. Fitzgerald found movie work at MGM degrading but he needed it so he wrote and worked on scripts ... pretty interesting, if nothing else. Also before recordings "sheet music" was the big seller. People would buy sheet music and have real musicians perform it.

How many people here have used or use iChat? Well heck, Bart is doing it right here. The last Buddy Rich concert was streamed...beats the price of a plane, hotel and tickets.

Sorry to be all over the place but it is all tied together.

Thanks again




donelk

  • Guest
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2008, 09:23 PM »
OK, here's an idea. I know a guy locally who is making a living. He is doing different stuff than you guys. He is a marching percussion pro. He does clinics, camps, school stuff, judging contests, publishing, etc.  He's been able to keep it going for over 25 years.

His wife is also a school music teacher. He's raised several kids and lives a middle class life.

http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/ReferencesView.aspx?PersonID=39076926

His strength is relationships with educators of all levels. His publishing provides passive income. He writes percussion stuff for student performers and school percussion (both marching and concert-style stuff). Also, he is a low-tech guy. He does have a MySpace page, but not much else. Oh... one of his kids did a simple website for the summer camps.

Offline dizz

  • Cafe VIP
  • Posts: 784
    • Bobby Vincent
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2008, 09:46 PM »
I dont have much I can add to this very interesting thread but when I was waiting for a friend today, I had NPR on the radio.   You can hear the segment here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96284161

Click "Listen Now"

When I heard this, I thought about when I was reading this thread the previous evening.  This guy doesnt create any music.  He snags/mixes samples from pop songs.  --Without permission no-less

♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪

frankbriggs

  • Guest
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2008, 10:00 PM »
I've been reading this thread and thinking... a lot.

I wish I had valuable input to this thread. I guess my only contribution is to ask... Do you still enjoy what you are doing? What would you do if not music?

Great question...
I do for sure but, as Chris mentioned there are some drawbacks that I am less and less excited about as I get older. Traveling all the time and a few others... of course it still depends on the situation. Outside of music I personally am interested in web design, video editing and Green technologies.

The reason for this post is research. I found an article awhile back.
http://www.downbeat.com/default.asp?sect=stories&subsect=story_detail&sid=503

It is called The Jazz Scene Today.
the first time i read it I missed the date at the top... check it out.


Thanks Don and Dizz...
Let me point out that I own a home with a studio in Los Angeles. I did this all playing and teaching drums plus some composing. I see it all changing though.. quickly and I would like not only to stay on top of it for myself but for people I teach. I don't mind putting this out there as I think so many could benefit.

I still haven't read much about the local scenes here.

 

Drummer Cafe RSS Feeds Drummer Cafe on Twitter Drummer Cafe on Facebook Drummer Cafe on YouTube Drummer Cafe on Pinterest Drummer Cafe on Instagram