Topic: Where is it all going...??  (Read 11422 times)

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frankbriggs

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2008, 10:17 PM »

When I heard this, I thought about when I was reading this thread the previous evening.  This guy doesnt create any music.  He snags/mixes samples from pop songs.  --Without permission no-less

Amazingly ballsy...
"Fair Use" according to Bill Clinton's Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 is a 30 second clip of low quality. This guy's attitude is ..well..
It will be interesting to see what happens...especially if he has a hit song.
He has sampled the Carpenters, Dianna Ross and Metallica. Too much to go into.

Offline Chris Whitten

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2008, 10:21 PM »
  This guy doesnt create any music.  He snags/mixes samples from pop songs.  --Without permission no-less

I do think he 'creates' music, but it's surely stealing. he is a prime example of what Frank is talking about.
He (Greg Gillis, aka 'Girl Talk') has been able to afford to leave his dayjob by making collages of other people's recordings. he says he's covered by fair use laws, but I can't see what the 'fair use' is.
The honest fact is, his art would be impossible legally because it would take too long to get permission to use all the samples and it would be too expensive.
It's kind of another example of cheap music replacing paid for music.
Hire someone like Frank to play funky beats all over your record, or sample lots of beats for free. The way Gillis is doing it, Frank and we other drummers who want a career in music all miss out.


Offline Matt Self (Gaddabout)

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2008, 11:30 AM »
Actually, I don't think 'fair use' is covered under this scenario because 'fair use' almost always applies to educational applications. I'd love to hear what ASCAP thinks about this. It took them years to catch up with all the theft that occurred in hip hop in the 90s, but they did extract some money for the original artist. If the song is based on the identifiable hook of another song -- Vanilla Ice's Ice Ice Baby, for example -- the U.S. courts have been consistent in calling that copyright infringement. Of course, on the flip side, all the sampling resurrected Mike Clark's career because everyone learned he was the drummer who was being so often sampled. Gadd's 50 Ways beat has been sampled and re-mixed some 40 times in pop music.

Frank, composing is still very lucrative if you can get the work. It's a stay-at-home job that provides much more long-term, stable income if you can get the right gigs and you have an ear for a hook. You definitely understand complex composition. If that kind of stuff makes you happy, I can't imagine why you wouldn't pursue it more. I always assume someone in your position gets the itch to just play, and being a full-time composer basically means putting down the sticks ... it's definitely time intensive and will drain your creative juices.
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Offline chilledbongo

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2008, 11:39 AM »
OK I guess I AM old(er), but there are some very fancy CD stores near me and I shop at them regularly.
When I get the CD home I live with it for a while, then convert my favourite tracks to iTunes so I can listen to the music around the house or on my iPod.

Regarding the demise of CD and DVD, I agree it's because it is hardware. Don't forget hardware is an extra cost that isn't incurred by conversion to online download.
I'm sure record companies and software producers would love to see the back of the CD because it costs a lot of money to buy the disc, have it burned and have the accompanying artwork and text designed and printed.

i guess the physical blank cd is an 'extra cost,' but it can only amount to fractions of pennies in bulk. i realize that adds up, but the can that soup comes in is an 'extra cost' too. but it's a necessary part of the product.

as we know, music and everything related is a cyclical industry. what's old usually becomes new again, sooner or later. i expect that to be the case with everything deemed old hat today, i.e., cds, albums, bands with actual musicians instead of computers and tracks, recordings of actual music as played and sung, not computer 'corrected' in the studio etc etc

i expect some major improvements in mp3 players, or a replacement for the execrable mp3 format sooner or later. meanwhile, im not throwing out my cds, as i stupidly did with my huge vinyl hoard about a decade ago. how i wish i had that back today! along with my circa 1982 linn-sondek turntable, state of the art then and now.

fyi, amazon sells mp3s at twice the fidelity of itunes and at much lower cost, usually 79 cents per track and as low as $5 per album. they play on apple players and make itunes look like the consumer rip-off that it is.




less is more

Offline Matt Self (Gaddabout)

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2008, 01:14 PM »
i guess the physical blank cd is an 'extra cost,' but it can only amount to fractions of pennies in bulk. i realize that adds up, but the can that soup comes in is an 'extra cost' too. but it's a necessary part of the product.

By far, the biggest cost of any CD is the marketing behind it. That's not something that will change, at least in terms of real dollars and its impact on the cost of the product. But there are many costs associated with making a CD that aren't involved with digital distribution:

- Printing
- Distribution (a MASSIVE cost)
- Liner notes

If a CD costs $18 U.S., that's probably $7 of the cost right there.
Odd meter isn't broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. - David Crigger

Offline KevinD

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2008, 01:18 PM »
Actually, I don't think 'fair use' is covered under this scenario because 'fair use' almost always applies to educational applications.

Speaking of fair use of samples, this type brought back memories of this novelty song that came out when I was about 10 (someone did some clever video editing for YouTube)

 

Is this the first "sampled" song? I wonder if there were any issues over it?
"If it weren't for Thomas Edison we'd all be watching TV in the dark." - Attributed to various people over the years.

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frankbriggs

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2008, 02:09 PM »
I do think he 'creates' music, but it's surely stealing. he is a prime example of what Frank is talking about.-----------
The honest fact is, his art would be impossible legally because it would take too long to get permission to use all the samples and it would be too expensive.
It's kind of another example of cheap music replacing paid for music.
Hire someone like Frank to play funky beats all over your record, or sample lots of beats for free. The way Gillis is doing it, Frank and we other drummers who want a career in music all miss out.

Thanks Chris...there are many musicians on this board that could provide that service, not the least of which is yourself.

It isn't only drummers losing out it is every instrumentalist. I don't have a problem with what he is doing creatively but I do have a problem with his BS "Fair Use" argument. THAT is the whole reason I started on my own little campaign to educate some people via the internet.

I have tried to have this same conversation on another board and it didn't go well at all.

This Girl Talk guy sites "NegativLand" as an influence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativland#The_U2_record_incident

Negativland was sued by Island records for a variety of copyright violations and it nearly ended them.

BTW you can hear the chorus of the Carpenters "Close to You"...didn't Burt Bacharach write that? It would be interesting to hear his views on Girl Talk's "Fair Use" argument. This guy is comparing what he does to actually playing an instrument...??? Really?

I totally get what he is doing. He will get a lot of publicity when the lawsuits start streaming in.

I embrace the art aspect of this and absolutely hate his attitude.

Side Bar- when I produced Tecopa Moon from my album I created collages in the intro and under the drum solo. These were made from "original" samples from myself and the other musicians. It isn't hard to do. Learn how to play a couple freakin chords, hire a guitar player, reverse and manipulate "that". To take a popular recording that cost someone else to produce and write and have the balls to say "I don't ask permission and I don't pay for the rights" is messed up and he "knows" that.

Anyway... Matt. I love writing. It is as enjoyable to me as playing drums. I have had all of China Ranch accepted by a licensing firm for TV and Film. nothing has been placed yet but those things can take a little time. I am looking into some other areas as well.

This post isn't as much for me as it is for all of us. I am convinced that we will need to reinvent to some degree in the Music Business 2.0. Drummers are energetic and resourceful. We can't play solo at a piano bar. There are some opportunities obstacles with today's technology plus misguided and/or malicious attitudes toward intellectual property and basic rights of creative professionals.

My original purpose was research for an article I wanted to submit to Bill Miller...I am so bummed about his passing.

I want to create some lists. Ways to make it work in the new music business. This isn't about doom and gloom.

The subjects:
a. Changes in the Industry,
b. Opportunities AND Obstacles,
c. Solutions and how to develop a game plan that is appropriate for:

1. your skill level
2. your goals (pro, hobby, side job, pure fun)
3. your age and personal commitments etc.

Side Note 2# - I have had students that want to go pro. After we talked I find out he has a wife and a baby.... sorry that changes everything. I believe you can do whatever you set out to do but I would be reckless as a teacher to not point out the hurdles and sacrifices that you may have to make.

Michael Phelps was on The Colbert Repor recently. 14 career gold medals at 23 yo.
He mentioned a 5 year period where he swam "every day" 365 days a year for 5 years. He also pointed out the the American team actually put more hours in that any of the other teams and that he would "not" be going for 8 gold in the next olympics... he is kicking back a little:)

I have had people ask me in regards to my drumming "how do you do that?" "got any cheats?" etc.
It is all about how much you are willing to sacrifice to get to where you want to go.
Sorry if I got off track.

BTW if you see pirated product online and don't know what to do here is a link.
http://www.riaa.com/reportpiracy.php

I don't think the riaa handled the Napster thing very well but, they can probably help make it a little more difficult for the misguided fans out there who have no idea what "fair" is and you can remain anonymous if you want.






frankbriggs

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2008, 04:42 PM »
Funny...sort of.
I have been suggesting that everyone give music as Christmas presents this year, it's cheap, easy and helps at the same time. I bought my girlfriend's 13 yo son a copy of Led Zepplin 4...he loves it.  I got this email today from a friend of mine. Someone is circulating this for real.
The response is not mine. This is the email as I received it this morning.
Check it out and lemeno what you think. It fits into one of the "obstacles" we face.

A Great example of the "not getting it" mentality.

BTW...the guy doin' the splainin' is a pro that makes his living as a musician.

*******************************************************************

My friend just got this email from someone he didn't even know, read it and then see my translation afterwards - I'm trying to get him to give me "Randy's" address to send it to him - boy, would I like to have an idiot like this alone in a room, I'd love to do some forceful 'splainin' to him. Forward this to anyone that you know that regularly steals music - just because it's not illegal doesn't make it right - Doug:
-------------
Wishing you all a Merry Christmas and Happy and Safe Holiday Season.
 
This is also a reminder to urge each of you and your friends NOT TO GIVE MUSIC CD's AS CHRISTMAS PRESENTS, this year,  or if you do give CD's, make sure that they are not produced by Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) members.  For the past 5 years, the RIAA has been suing its fans in Federal District Court.  It is our turn to remind them, (Via a Grass Roots E-mail, and a sting in the pocket book), that music is for everyone, and that Greed should not dictate how we listen to it, play it, or where we store it. (Personal Computer, I-Pod, Jump Drive, or MP3 Player)   Listening to music is not a crime.
 
Please pass this on to as many people as you know.  Get the message out. Support Independent Music Artist, and send the RIAA a message. 
 
I hope I don't sound like a Scrooge, but when the RIAA comes acting like Big Brother, you need to stand up.      Thanks, Randy
-------------------(simple translation that any moron should be able to understand)------

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas and Happy and Safe Holiday Season.
 
This is also a reminder to urge each of you and your friends NOT TO GIVE FOOD AS CHRISTMAS PRESENTS, this year,  or if you do give FOOD, make sure that they are not marketed by any large grocery stores.  For the past 5 years, the large grocery stores have been actually suing its patrons that take food from their stores without paying in Federal District Court.  It is our turn to remind them, (Via a Grass Roots E-mail, and a sting in the pocket book), that food is for everyone, and that Greed should not dictate that we actually pay for it, how we chew it, or when we eat it. (now or later)   Eating food is not a crime.
 
Please pass this on to as many people as you know.  Get the message out. Support farmers who are independently wealthy and like to dig in the dirt for fun and just give food away, and send the large grocery stores a message. 
 
I hope I don't sound like a Scrooge, but when people actually expect to be paid for their labor, you need to stand up - as long as I myself continue to be paid for whatever it is that I do.      Thanks, your friend, a person that can't understand the most basic of economic concepts!

Offline eardrum

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2008, 01:27 AM »
That reply is perfect.....

Offline Chris Whitten

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2008, 04:51 AM »
I would love these music consumers who are so free spirited about the cost of legal purchases to have to make a living out of music in 2009.
No job in an office, no social security, no money from drug deals. Just an income purely from making and /or playing music.
I guarantee they would become hardcore RIAA supporters within a couple of months.
 ;)

Zappa-fan

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2008, 07:12 AM »
A bit later in my life I became involved with the art of drumming and making music. I question myself sometimes, if I had started playing earlier on (and if I had the talent) did I want to become a professional musician.
I discussed this topic with my drum teacher. He knows quit a few colleagues that switched profession, because they simply couldn't make a living as a musician. But I question if it is all to blame on piracy. In this discussion I'm missing the role of the record companies. So I want to make a (blunt) assertion. I don't know if it is true.


Before piracy got global attention the prices of CD (popular new releases) here in Holland / Western Europe costed about €22 euros. Music sales dropped and in the end also the prices. A CD costs now around €15. The vision of a record company is making (a lot of) money on short term and not creating a steady and healthy business. The piracy problem is a reaction against the way too high prices. In other words and less judgemental I'm wondering what the role and responsibility is of the record companies with respect to piracy. BTW I haven't found any scientifically figures on piracy, comparing by year.  

There is something in between a legal purchased copy and piracy. If I rent a movie, it will cost me a fifth or less than the actual price at a store. If I go to the city library it Will cost my annual library subscription to loan the "Art of boogaloo" (actually did that, and many more). But if I had copied his book I would have violated the copyright law, but by reading it I had "mentally" copied his book. And so on ....


Last year the newspapers here in Holland wrote that the government stopped the "war" against piracy. It was impossible. Reasing taxes on blank DVDs wasn't a believable option.  

And also got intrigued now Joe Satriani has sued Cold Play. :-\. This might be an example where the line between piracy and legal copying is thin. I'm interested in the outcome of the law suit.

A top-down approach is a necessary condition. I think the business model needs to be changed. Fair prices, fair royalties. The increasing social interdependency's due to up come of the internet (the current status I think is just the beginning) requires international law. E.g. China doesn't recognize the copyright laws of another nation. A bottom-up approach i.e. musicians taking things in their own hand. I really hope it works for them on the long term.

Rene





 

Jim P

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2008, 04:24 PM »
There are people who are making a nice living in the percussion field even here in Central New York.  The key is that they play a variety of percussion not just drum set. The drum set is way to limiting as to it's usage/ability to secure steady work.  To make a consistant living you have to be able to play marimba/mallets, set, hand percussion, timp, and marching percussion both battery and pit.  As well as be able to conduct a musical group. Between the playing(from clubs to symphony) and teaching(both private and in schools) there are people making a living every day in the percussion field.  The key is the versatility. 

Offline Chris Whitten

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2008, 05:41 PM »
But question I it is it all to blame on piracy. In this discussion I'm missing the role of the record companies.

There are many factors at play. I don't think anyone should blame the current malaise solely on pirating. But here is a big point....... that doesn't legitimize illegal copying or piracy. It's no excuse.
I think CD's were a little too expensive a few years ago, especially in the rest of the world compared to the U.S. Now they are probably too cheap. At least the price of recorded music is too little to support much but the very commercial end of the market (old established bands and the products of reality tv - Idol etc).

Quote
 
And also got intrigued now Joe Satriani has sued Cold Play. :-\ ??? This might be an example where the line between piracy and legal copying is thin. I'm interested in the outcome of the law suit.
[/quote]

This has nothing to do with the subject I'm afraid.
Plagiarism has been around since the dawn of music.
In this case, the two pieces of music are highly similar.
It's possible Coldplay wrote their piece without ever having heard Satriani's and the closeness is completely accidental. It's also possible the Coldplay songwriters heard the Satriani piece and it entered their subconscious.  Again, a rather accidental copying of the previous work.
It's possible Coldplay out and out ripped off the Satriani piece, but this would be highly unusual with two high profile artists involved.
As I said though, nothing to do with piracy and the future of the music business.


frankbriggs

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2008, 12:08 AM »
There are people who are making a nice living in the percussion field even here in Central New York.  The key is that they play a variety of percussion not just drum set. The drum set is way to limiting as to it's usage/ability to secure steady work.  To make a consistant living you have to be able to play marimba/mallets, set, hand percussion, timp, and marching percussion both battery and pit.  As well as be able to conduct a musical group. Between the playing(from clubs to symphony) and teaching(both private and in schools) there are people making a living every day in the percussion field.  The key is the versatility. 

I agree. My friends that work like crazy here, do a lot of shows and play a multitude of instruments. The difference is they "never" go on the road and though they are super adept at their instruments they seldom write anything of their own.

It is just an observation, not a judgement.

I have a few friends that teach and/or are heads of their college departments. It is a great way to go but not everyone is cut out for that. I have a 23 yo student that is really gifted and smart. I would like to see him go back to school and do exactly what you mentioned...it isn't in his heart.. he wants to Rock.

Jim...you are in Central New York and possess infinite wisdom...I must know you correct?:)

It is great advice for sure and I appreciate it.
Everyone should listen.
The key is "certainly" versatility.

Thank you.






frankbriggs

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2008, 01:22 AM »

There is something in between a legal purchased copy and piracy. If I rent a movie, it will cost me a fifth or less than the actual price at a store. If I go to the city library it Will cost my annual library subscription to loan the "Art of boogaloo" (actually did that, and many more). But if I had copied his book I would have violated the copyright law, but by reading it I had "mentally" copied his book. And so on ....


Last year the newspapers here in Holland wrote that the government stopped the "war" against piracy. It was impossible. Reasing taxes on blank DVDs wasn't a believable option.  


Wow...Well Chris handled some of that really well.

Rene
I totally appreciate this. Let me give you my personal perspective and experience.
I am not a label. I play, teach and write music for my living. I have been signed to a major and had some indie deals etc.
After a lot of research and thinking I released China Ranch on my own label. I am certain I could have got a label to subsidize the project to some degree but, I wanted total artistic freedom...that was my call. What I didn't see coming was the current attitude of entitlement of some on the internet.

I can't tell you what it feels like to release something you worked really hard on and find out people you don't know in countries you have never been to etc. (fans) decide to give it away under the guise of "Fair Use" and "Promotion" .. without ever bothering to ask etc.

I recently went to Last.fm to start a page and I was already there! someone from Poland uploaded a picture another from Brazil uploaded some tracks... I thanked them and sent 6 unreleased tracks because they are fans and I think they thought they were helping me...and maybe they are. I am accessible. Run it by me.

Where is my say in this? I mean really. Shouldn't "I" be the one giving it away? Shouldn't it be "my" choice? it's "my" music.

I am glad "Art of Boogaloo" is in your local library (not some of my best work btw).
Now that is an example of "sharing" there is one single thing being used among two or more. Plus my publisher (Mel Bay) and I have given permission for the book to be used in this way. We "the man" do give back. Mel Bay is also online weekly asking that scanned books be taken down from sites that have books available for free download.

Definitions;
Sharing; use, occupy, or enjoy (something) a single thing jointly with another or others

Copies, Copied
make a similar or identical version of; reproduce


copyright; the exclusive legal right, given to an originator or an assignee to print, publish, perform, film, or record literary, artistic, or musical material, and to authorize others to do the same.

Permission; consent; authorization


BTW "the man" that everyone hates so much is who provides such things as Public Libraries, Schools, Parks, Pools, Fire Departments, Post Offices and yes Police. As well as a gazillion other things and services... Where would we be without some laws. It would be the Wild West again and that is what is happening on the internet in regards to "file stealing". I need to reroof my garage. What do you think the chances of me getting it done for free? It is a much smaller investment than making an album and i deserve a new roof...

Respect, sense of fair play etc etc.

If I sound like I am hammering you Rene I apologize...it isn't personal. I have presented this argument so many ways i am tired of it.

Music is very cheap these days... most of it it is free to listen to. There is a ton of great stuff to check out. Did the major record companies have a role in the current situation...possibly yes but, I am not totally qualified to answer that. It is a combination of things.

It is no one's right or business to conclude who had a bad deal with what company or they have enough money etc. ... I love "Listening to music isn't a Crime" what the..??#%@??. that is an argument!?

Why is it that some people feel entitled to own the files or a copy of the CD without so much as doing anything to truly help promote the artist? Not a positive review, a buy link, .. how about helping hook up gigs in their country?? some teamwork would be nice.

"I" am not "the man". It sucks to feel like "the man" when all you are trying to do is keep people from raiding the garden that you have been caring for all season.

But you know what? your country is correct...you can't stop it...meaning you can't stop others from stealing. You can only change yourself.

Some great feedback...thanks Rene and Jim.
Peace,
Frank

Sorry this was soooo long.

It will be condensed into one of the obstacles faced by today's recording artists/record labels

Here is a link I was just made aware of. This guy is a breath of fresh air (not)
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10127017-17.html

Like I have said earlier... it makes me feel like packing up and calling it a day.
I recently found out that Kazaa one of the big P2P software programs is trying to sue Google (I heard) because their software is being pirated...hmmm

Also have you ever noticed that you rarely hear a musician/composer speak out "against" DRM or the RIAA. Ever wonder why?

Offline Chris Whitten

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2008, 03:15 PM »
Someone my age (aka mature of mind) on another drum forum offers to burn CD's for other members, and offers to share software free of charge.
You want to step in and say something, but you don't want to seem like the grinch that killed Christmas.  :-\
Having worked alongside some nice guys who's software product is often illegally shared, it saddens me to see software copying so openly offered on forums similar to this.

frankbriggs

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2008, 04:04 PM »
Someone my age (aka mature of mind) on another drum forum offers to burn CD's for other members, and offers to share software free of charge.
You want to step in and say something, but you don't want to seem like the grinch that killed Christmas.  :-\
Having worked alongside some nice guys who's software product is often illegally shared, it saddens me to see software copying so openly offered on forums similar to this.

Encore, my favorite transcription software went out of business because of piracy as I wrote earlier.

and you become the a-hole "the man" when you point out that they are breaking the law and pounding nails in their own coffin.

I own all of Spectrasonics Virtual Instruments. Their sounds and sample libraries are superb. They get their libraries ripped off all the time. They spend small fortunes creating this stuff. Now you have to be Astrophysicist to install it on your computer and the price goes up.

It is one thing to pass a copy to a friend and a whole other level when you make it available for complete strangers worldwide. It is the epitome of "not cool'

Google "death of the music Industry" sometime.

I am stepping away from this subject until after Christmas...

Who needs help with their bass drum pedal!?:)

Zappa-fan

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2008, 03:47 AM »
FB: Your not hammering, I totally agree on what you were saying. Even before the start of this threat!

After FB reply and reading over and over the entire threat, I signed up for the I-tunes store, just to see how it works and downloaded for 0.99 euro cents per track ($1.30) a couple of China Ranch tunes ;). Hits: you can pay per track, fair prices (or not??), downloaded tracks are forseen with some measures to prevent illegal sharing. Misses: as far as I have seen there you can't listen to a short sound track for every tune. I want to know what I'm going to buy. (Here in Holland) youngsters from 13 to 18 need parents approval to sign up. That it understandable, but I think the adolescent group is a group where "illegal sharing" is quit common. Finally, if you become a I-Tunes plus customer (or what so ever) you can distribute your downloaded copy without any limitation. :-\


I think in the end things will change. Piracy will never be stopped, but will be brought back at an acceptable level: It is one thing to pass a copy to a friend and a whole other level when you make it available for complete strangers worldwide. .

Hopes for the future: Reliable enough technology will be developed to "stop" sharing. The audience is "educated", but also the business culture (which is conservative by nature) must adapt.


Regards René

Offline Lou

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Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2008, 06:04 AM »
After FB reply and reading over and over the entire threat, I signed up for the I-tunes store, just to see how it works and downloaded for 0.99 euro cents per track ($1.30) a couple of China Ranch tunes ;).

I think in the end things will change. Piracy will never be stopped, but will be brought back at an acceptable level:

Hopes for the future: Reliable enough technology will be developed to "stop" sharing. The audience is "educated", but also the business culture (which is conservative by nature) must adapt.

Zappa-fan ... next time you might want to save some money ... I payed $8.99 for the whole album or 0.99 cents a track if you only want one or a couple. I think i bought it on DigStation but you can buy it on Amazon for that price too.
I am curious where the $0.31 a track difference goes ... is it the artist? I doubt that very much.

On the piracy issue I have to disagree, I think it will never be brought back to an acceptable level (whatever standard of acceptable level will be agreed upon, if at all). It is an ethical thing and as long as internet users can enjoy the comfort of anonymity the internet provides I think by nature most people will forget ethics and go for the cheap (free) and easy.

But there's another point ... here in the Netherlands, downloading music or movies isn't illegal ... but sharing is. Downloading from newsgroups (a major major source) is OK, participating in torrent networks sharing copyrighted material isn't.

And then there's a third issue and that is (organized) crime. Having worked in the high tech crime environment for almost a decade I have been involved in some piracy cases. Just one example (some time ago) is a group here in the Netherlands that would create a top-40 CD every month, drive to Bulgaria or Spain in a small truck and come back with tens of thousands CD's they would sell within a week. If I remember correct they paid 50 cents a copy, selling them all within a week at 20-fold the cost. Under the bed of mom we found a suitcase with over a million ... house hold money she explained  ::).

I'm afraid I don't share your hopes as long as the industry as a whole (music and hardware) cannot agree on standards, as long as there is no harmonized legislation and also because I think the general public just doesn't care. But maybe being a cop for a long time has made me a bit negative ... I hope I'm wrong.

To conclude ... Frank I love China Ranch ... looking forward to your next project.

Zappa-fan

  • Guest
Re: Where is it all going...??
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2008, 06:33 AM »
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Zappa-fan ... next time you might want to save some money ... I payed $8.99 for the whole album or 0.99 cents a track if you only want one or a couple. I think i bought it on DigStation but you can buy it on Amazon for that price too.

That's why: fair prices (or not??), can elaborate on that, but won't do that .... yet.


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And then there's a third issue and that is (organized) crime. Having worked in the high tech crime environment for almost a decade I have been involved in some piracy cases. ...................... If I remember correct they paid 50 cents a copy, selling them all within a week at 20-fold the cost. Under the bed of mom we found a suitcase with over a million ... house hold money she explained

I mentioned earlier if piracy has gotten worse since Internet emerged.... still don't know ....

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I'm afraid I don't share your hopes as long as the industry as a whole (music and hardware) cannot agree on standards,

Like living in Utopia ;D, That's why I questioned the role of the industry. It might be an prerequisite for the future to get people to pay for the music..... ???

René



 

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