Where is it all going...??

[-chris]

Personal Programming is the direction of the business. What you want and when you want it. Trying to make money from the world's largest billboard (the internet) is tough especially when the world already thinks a majority of it is free. Though once they get over the piracy hurdle so that once when you view something it's not all over You tube; you're going to be able to go see U2 live on the internet in Dublin right in your living room or I should say Media Room (for a fee of course).  One of the last shows I played at CBGB's my wife was home (babysitting) and she got to see the whole show right from her laptop. Proof to the Drummer Café is the most recent Buddy Rich Show that was on the Drum Channel via the internet. This channel gave us a free show to spark an interest and now it will be something one will have to pay to view again.  It will then be available "On Demand" for the world to see at anytime, hence "Pay per View". 

New music is a tough sell, no one is going to take a chance on an "X" factor, and no one is going to buy something they don't know anything about. It's going to be a tough road to get people to sign on to your programming but I think it will still have to start with a Grass Roots campaign via your good ole mailing list  or I should say e mailing list.  Getting out there, performing and selling; that will never change.

We're in a tough time; no one wants to spend money they don't have. 

Wow I mentioned "tough" a lot in this post.

Regarding newspapers and magazines, I don't think they will be replaced anytime soon. I still like to read things outside the internet. I don't like looking at a screen all day; I rather print out a large article and read it someplace else.  I'm not about to take my laptop into the bathroom...lol.

[frankbriggs]

Wow I mentioned "tough" a lot in this post.

Yeah...you did:)

There is an interesting article in the New Yorker this week on the plight of the newspapers. Tribune has filed Chapter 11 etc. There are other problems with the Tribune deal however. The article points to a failure to move to the net soon enough as well as the new "free" standard and the ramifications of that.

Here is a quote from James Surowiecki (Dec 22 The New Yorker.com)
"Soon enough, we are going to start getting what we pay for, and we may find out just how little that is".
We want access to everything, we want it now, and we want it for free
That is a consumer's dream, but eventually that dream will collide with reality.

When "_*fill in the blank_" profits vanish, eventually so will the product".

*newspapers, music, tv, etc.

This is a good reason to join as a VIP on DrummerCafe. Let's keep this going.

[Paicey]

Business talk scares me. I just want to play and have fun. Unfortunately (for me) you have to deal with this. This issue is the abominable snowman and like Ukon and Rudolph i want to hide. Somehow we need to pull the abominable snowmans chompers so we can be happy.

[frankbriggs]

I don't think it is scary at all (well maybe a little) .

It is different, challenging and exciting. It could make things better ultimately, but no one is sure yet.

For instance;
a positive scenario.

Your band is playing a club. You are no longer limited to the people that physically attend because the club you are playing is streaming worldwide via the internet (for a fee). Your band makes extra $ from the subscribers. Everyone wins. People get to enjoy a band in Boston without buying plane tickets etc. Your band can now build a fan base in Poland, Austria, Minnesota etc.

If the Railroad had understood the fact that they were in the transportation business instead of the train business they would not have suffered as an industry. They let other companies beat them with trucks, busses, planes etc.

All I am saying is  "Change is Coming" not "The Sky is Falling".

Thanks Paicey

[Mark Pedersen]

I guess I know how to grind a conversation (or in this case a thread) to a halt.

Carry on.......... :-X

[frankbriggs]

sorry..
No I thought it was interesting. I went to my first Christmas party last night and have had a headache all day:)

The DJ thing is a problem and a possible opportunity. I have known some drummers who have partnered with a DJ. A duo; live drums playing with a DJ.

Isn't that what Travis Barker was doing when he got hurt?

I really like Jojo Mayer's Nerve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpAx9J4lM4Q
I really dig what he does and I bet this would be way more popular than a DJ on his own if people were exposed to it more.

Kundalini Boombox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5h2DgCluL0&feature=related

Tony Verderosa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQcJsb4P60I

If the DJ is playing classic rock that is a whole other thing. You need to figure out how to get them to hire your classic rock band instead.

What I find interesting about DJs is that sometimes these guys will get as much or more money than a full band. If there is so much of it going on in your area check it out and talk to the club owners. Try to see what the attraction is. Is it financial?, the set list?. Your band might want to invest in a mirror ball and sub woofers.

Don't give up on this thread if I don't respond right away...it is a crazy week.

speaking of which..

Side Note- Purposely off subject - Just to lighten this up

Whenever I start complaining about living in Los Angeles something like this happens.

I was invited to a Christmas party last night at Mitch Forman's house. There is always a jam session. I decided I wasn't going to sit in no matter what. As Melonie and I were walking up to the house I heard the band playing and thought ... man that is really burning.

When we got inside I saw why. Mitch Forman on piano, Ric Fierabracci on bass, Mike Miller on guitar, Bob Sheppard on tenor, Walt Fowler on flugelhorn, Brad Dutz on percussion and Dave Weckl on drums,

It was ridiculous. I haven't picked up the sticks in a month (as I mentioned somewhere, I am taking a break) My drummer friend Craig Pilo was playing some light funk versions of Christmas tunes and at one point he stood up and gave me the sticks...I thought ok, I can do this.

I sat in with the same guys except Stan Sargeant former Tonight Show band played bass.. and... they called "Cherokee!!"... I laughed because I thought they were joking, they were not. Mitch counted off..1234 boom...no kidding ...with Weckl there.

I was soaked after one tune...it was fun and Dave was really nice. .. but I thought my heart was going to give out:) and my head is still pounding.
I had to share that...

The lesson here is "don't ever take a break:)"

I did get around to discussing this thread with Craig and Dave. DW said he may release one tune at a time. Digital only, with a playalong version.

Merry Christmas, Happy Everything.. everyone

[NY Frank]

For instance;
a positive scenario.

Your band is playing a club. You are no longer limited to the people that physically attend because the club you are playing is streaming worldwide via the internet (for a fee). Your band makes extra $ from the subscribers. Everyone wins. People get to enjoy a band in Boston without buying plane tickets etc. ...

I'm looking forward to a world where this is more common.

I'd enjoy that very much, and I believe I'd part with small amounts of cash
to watch.

I have already caught a couple of stellar - live - performances on Ustream,
and I wish there was more of that going on.

[Matt Self (Gaddabout)]

Frank, I totally agree with you on Jojo and Nerve. That's where the real "fusion" is happening these days. The problem is playing like Jojo in that environment requires facility demands probably greater than that of a jazz drummer, but if that's what people end up aspiring to, at least we can rest assured that the art of drumming won't die with this generation. (It will more likely be advanced!)

On iTunes ... it's by no means a great deal for the artist, but I think most of them agree it's better than the alternative (digital anarchy).

[frankbriggs]

Frank, I totally agree with you on Jojo and Nerve. That's where the real "fusion" is happening these days. The problem is playing like Jojo in that environment requires facility demands probably greater than that of a jazz drummer, but if that's what people end up aspiring to, at least we can rest assured that the art of drumming won't die with this generation. (It will more likely be advanced!)

On iTunes ... it's by no means a great deal for the artist, but I think most of them agree it's better than the alternative (digital anarchy).

Actually that band looks pretty easy to pull off since the sound guy is also a member. They do need to haul the mixers however. I wonder why it isn't bigger on a regional level?

If you are an independent, you do better on iTunes than if you are signed to a label. David Byrne's column addresses that. Digital distribution costs between 30 to 40% of your sale. That is if you  own the music totally. Someone like Britney Spears may only get a few cents per track. I get between 60-70 cents. and a penny for a stream... I have been reading that many consumers think .99 is too much to pay for a song. Amazon is now .89 and lala is .79 cents.

Side Note- What I found interesting is I no one ever asked me. I didn't sign up with LaLa but they sell China Ranch for .79 a track. If you join LaLa you get 50 free tracks. You would think that you would be asked if you want your music given away, which is being used to promote LaLa...nope. So besides the pirates you have larger legit companies doing whatever they see fit with music. None of these companies would be anything if it weren't for the content musicians were providing them.
Personally I think..."if we only had a Union"...something.

"Digital Anarchy" ... I may use that Matt.

[Matt Self (Gaddabout)]

Actually that band looks pretty easy to pull off since the sound guy is also a member. They do need to haul the mixers however. I wonder why it isn't bigger on a regional level?

I was referring to Jojo's machine-gun fire left hand. Can't imagine playing that style without being able to cop those sixteenth-note snare fills with the left hand. Easy for you, sure, but us mere mortals are pretty much earth-bound. ;)

[frankbriggs]

I was referring to Jojo's machine-gun fire left hand. Can't imagine playing that style without being able to cop those sixteenth-note snare fills with the left hand. Easy for you, sure, but us mere mortals are pretty much earth-bound. ;)

Oh..no...I can't touch that.

Ok the official Holiday internet blog break time is here...

I will be back in a few days.
Happy Holidays Matt!

[Matt Self (Gaddabout)]

Oh..no...I can't touch that.

Ok the official Holiday internet blog break time is here...

I will be back in a few days.
Happy Holidays Matt!

Just in case no one else knew what we were talking about, check out the video below. Happy Holidays to you, Frank. It's been a joy interacting with you this year!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf3fpULe6Ig&feature=related

[eardrum]

..............If you are an independent, you do better on iTunes than if you are signed to a label. David Byrne's column addresses that. Digital distribution costs between 30 to 40% of your sale. That is if you  own the music totally. Someone like Britney Spears may only get a few cents per track. I get between 60-70 cents. and a penny for a stream... I have been reading that many consumers think .99 is too much to pay for a song. Amazon is now .89 and lala is .79 cents.
..................

I've been subscribing to Emusic for quite a while.  It doesn't have the most popular stuff (Britney, etc...) but I don't buy the biggest selling music usually.  $11.99 per month and I get 40 songs each month (that's $.30 per song).  Probably more than 60% is just collecting older stuff, re-issues of older stuff. For example I just downloaded The Complete Modern Jazz Quartet Prestige And Pablo Recordings.  I think it's a great value.  There is some new stuff that comes out. Chick Corea's put some of his latest stuff there.   Haven't found any Frank Briggs there yet???  It seems that there may be some stratification in pricing which makes sense.  More popular, more expensive. 

[Lou]

$11.99 per month and I get 40 songs each month (that's $.30 per song). 

Curious as I am, I went to the site and it seems as they charge customers outside the US (there's a eMusic Europe) differently. I would pay 13.99 Euro for 30 song ... which is $19.49 or $0.65 per song, quite a difference.

[frankbriggs]

It is a good deal for some consumers for sure. I haven't submitted to eMusic because it isn't such a great deal for me. There is a lot to look into. How is the quality?

[Jim P]

Frank,

It's funny that Tony Verderosa's name came into this post.  You should contact him about what he does.  Last year at CNY drum day at OCC Tony named YOU as one of his inspirations for getting into the electronic thing. He was at Crane in the 80's and was going to Syracuse to see you when you were doing the 805 thing and were into the electronics at one point.  Your old roommate Rich G. from Rome also talked about you using electronics and writing melodies and playing them. Rich was a classmate of mine at OCC. 

Have a good holiday,

Jim P in Taberg

[Chris Whitten]

Can't imagine playing that style without being able to cop those sixteenth-note snare fills with the left hand.

All the same, you don't have to be Mayer to play with a DJ.
I listen to a lot of electronic (DJ style) music and never listen to Drum & Bass.
There is a ton of downbeat stuff, sampled drum loops etc....
There are drummers playing in some of these bands already.

On the DJ attraction......
Well for one thing, dance music with sounds that couldn't be replicated by real musicians became really cool at one point.
Bar owners wanted to cash in on cool.
The public who were into dance music wanted to hear familiar songs and/or familiar sounds and beats, hence no room for original bands.
I think this scene is receding, but there's no wonder venue owners and promoters loved it. No more bands with multiple members, who turn up late, make too much noise and don't sound as good as their demo tape.
No need for stage crew, multiple mics, or even large PA's.
Just a couple of decks and a medium sized PA. Add one or two DJ's and you have your evening of entertainment.

[frankbriggs]

Frank,

It's funny that Tony Verderosa's name came into this post.  You should contact him about what he does.  Last year at CNY drum day at OCC Tony named YOU as one of his inspirations for getting into the electronic thing. He was at Crane in the 80's and was going to Syracuse to see you when you were doing the 805 thing and were into the electronics at one point.  Your old roommate Rich G. from Rome also talked about you using electronics and writing melodies and playing them. Rich was a classmate of mine at OCC. 

Have a good holiday,

Jim P in Taberg

Thanks Jim...I can't believe I have a "day after" Christmas party to go to...but I do.

Tony is a friend of mine although I haven't seen him in a few years.
I actually sold him my old Simmons MTM (midi trigger module) and left all my stuff on it for him.  I am pretty sure I was the first or one of the first to do that tonal thing. I was bringing a guitar tuner to the gigs and pitching my simmons sd5 set and playing chordal drum solos. I had horn hits, alternate mode bass lines, percussion etc in 1982 or 83 or so. I don't remember exactly. I know I had some of the first sds 5, sds 7, MTM units and went to town with them. I did some all electronic clinics also. Alternate mode, eproms and layering,..ahh the good old days.

I never got past the point of it sounding like a bad keyboard player ..at least to me. They broke down a lot also. What Tony does is great. I think he has become the master of this technology.
He is a great player. I had a video of him performing the Black Page on drums and marimba when he was at Crane. Speaking of Rich G. Please tell him about the forum. I haven't talked to him in a decade.

Not to get off subject but I think with some of the new styles out there it makes more sense to have electronics. I am looking into Roland's SP12 and Korg's Kaos Pad. I would probably never go all electronic again. That being said Jojo Mayer is all acoustic and it sounds perfect.

[eardrum]

It is a good deal for some consumers for sure. I haven't submitted to eMusic because it isn't such a great deal for me. There is a lot to look into. How is the quality?

Quality is fine. I'm no expert in these matters but for listening on my IPOD or burning to MP3 CDs it's been fine - haven't noticed a difference between what I buy off of ITunes.  I should compare a few identical songs from each site and see if there actually is a difference.  The user interface works well and the reviews and recommendations aren't completely bad.... They have also been adding artists at a good clip.

It's a bummer to hear it's not a good deal for you but I guess if I'm buying at 30 instead of 99 cents per song the artist's cut is smaller.  So this is where the genius comes in an says "we'll make it up in volume"  :P.  It would be nice if there was a good independent rating system for artists to compare how well one method of distribution compares to another. 

[eardrum]

Curious as I am, I went to the site and it seems as they charge customers outside the US (there's a eMusic Europe) differently. I would pay 13.99 Euro for 30 song ... which is $19.49 or $0.65 per song, quite a difference.

Yow, not sure I would use it for that price.  Is Itunes or Amazon that much more expensive also?