Topic: A question of etiquette  (Read 4142 times)

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sidereal

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A question of etiquette
« on: May 31, 2002, 03:16 PM »
Tell me if this is wrong...

You're the headlining band. You hang out to watch the opening band and notice that there is some incredible talent there and it's something you'd like to be involved with. The only problem is the drummer. He's just not quite right. "I could do it better," you say to yourself. You talk with the singer backstage, easygoing type, good sense of humor. The two of you hit it off personally.

Now the question: Is it wrong to "move in" on a band that you find interesting, a gig you'd like to have? Are you stabbing a fellow drummer in the back? Does this kinda thing happen all the time?

I'm thinking back to the history of The Police. Andy Summers went to see them play, pulled Sting aside after the show and said "I'm better, you have to put me in your band."

Then again, I'm also thinking of the parallel of "moving in" on someone else's girlfriend. Not cool at all.

Thoughts?

sidereal

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2002, 03:19 PM »
Haha! I actually just realized that I'm probably helping to perpetuate the negative Drummer stereotype. :)


Offline Peter Jeffery

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2002, 03:34 PM »
If you got the goods -it's all fair.  If you made a habit out of going after everyone's gig all the time you're likely to get knocked out sooner or later.

Otherwise...the situation you describe is fair, it's business not personal.   May the better drummer win I say.  

At the very least, I'd let them know I was interested and leave my card 'in case' the situation ever arises.  

---------------COOL QUESTION SIDEREAL----------------------
Peter Jeffery
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Offline Bart Elliott

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2002, 03:37 PM »
I think it is very common place for this to happen; whether it's ethical is up to each individual person.

What I've done in these situations is just talk to the individual (such as Sidereal's singer), let them know that I really dig their music, would love to play for them, and tell them to PLEASE let me know if the ever have an opening. To me, this conveys the important stuff.

Now, if I've got to tell this band that there drummer isn't any good ... or that I'm better ... then that's pretty sorry. The reason it's sorry .... if the band can't hear what I hear or even tell the difference, then I don't think I would want to work with them anyway. In Sidereal's scenario, his band was playing after the band in question. They would hear how Sidereal plays and be able to make their own assessment ... so you would think.

Final note .... "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If you think this biblical principle is idiotic, then let's use another one ... "what goes around comes around." Whether it's "stabbing your fellow drummer in the back" or just how the music business goes ... you need to be aware that if this band was willing to drop their drummer for you ... what's stopping them from dropping you for someone else?

Another issue ....

I've been in situations that I did not initiate ... in which a band fired their drummer because of some fight, hire me, then let me go to take their old drummer back because they have all kissed and made up. Man, I don't want to get into all this personal stuff ... I just want to play music. If I get a sense that I'm some scab, hired only to heal some wound ... I run for the hills and say NO THANK YOU!!!

Just my two cents .........

sidereal

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2002, 04:32 PM »
As always, great thoughts. :)

I did give the singer my card. I was planning to follow up in an email saying "if you ever need a sub, I can fill that role really well." Something like that. Maybe I should be a bit more proactive, let them know I'd be interested if they ever have an opening.

Interesting thing (and the reason I used the Police reference): the band is a Police tribute band. They were uncanny. You close your eyes and it's Sting there singing, Andy Summers there playing all those 9th chords. Amazing really. I've copped more from Stewart Copeland than I have from any other drummer and they're one of my favorite bands. The drummer didn't quite have it down, and I could pull it off and have a great time as well. They're getting real buzz going and gigging like crazy.


Offline Bart Elliott

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2002, 05:11 PM »
I think this is a great thread ... and we could spend a lot of time discussing ... if others are into it.

About the tribute band, do you know how long the drummer has been with the band?

sidereal

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2002, 05:41 PM »
About the tribute band, do you know how long the drummer has been with the band?

I don't know. But I think it's a fairly new band. I'm not really one for tribute bands, but I'd definitely make an exception for The Police. :)

Here's what I emailed the singer just now:

"Hey,

Great show the other night. Too bad we couldn't get more people out.

If the drum throne ever opens up, or you need a sub, let me know. I know all those songs inside and out, and Stew's my man! Hell, I'd even bleach my hair. :)

Have a great weekend..."

-----

But yeah, I don't mean to take up this thread with my specific issue. I'm curious what similar experience others have had with this. Any fist fights? :)

felix

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2002, 07:02 PM »
Quote
But yeah, I don't mean to take up this thread with my specific issue. I'm curious what similar experience others have had with this. Any fist fights?

Strangely enough...could have been killed if I didn't shut my hole and get the hell out of the bar at the right time.

The less skillful drummer was living the rockstar life and I was fresh out of PIT ready to cut anyone in my path on my way to being a bar star.  Well, he took my place for two years while I was in Cali and when I came back he saw that my guitar player were getting friendly one evening...in fact, I think I was already back in the band...can't remember...anyways:

He was pissed, plus there was a money thing between us well so it was not a pretty scene.

We are on speaking terms now but I have to walk on pins and needles when he's around.

I'd say just be a fan for awhile.  A while back I had a chance to audition with that prog band here in town.  I was a fan...didn't get the gig (thank goodness) but got the call- just be patient.  They havn't been together long- so see if they can be a band.  Get my drift?

BAnimalG

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2002, 08:54 AM »
You're such a slut sidereal!   ;)  

I don't see anything wrong with that approach at all.  In my eyes, you're trying to help make that band better and more successful.   :)

Jazzman

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2002, 10:15 PM »
I went to a big dance once, my keyboard player was sitting in for the guy that was sick that night.  My guitar player and myself went to the dance to just listen.  The next thing I knew they announced my group the keyboard player and that the drummer for that group was in the house and asked me to get on stage to play a couple of tunes.  They heard me before and all of the folks applauded.....needless to say I was embarassed but played.  I knew I was better than the drummer on stage but he was also excited that I came up on stage to lay down some chops and such.  This event was many years ago.....now I'm sure that they would applaud when I get off of the stage!!! ;D

Myself I would leave a card with the band leader.  Tell him where he could hear me play, or give him a demo tape of me playing in a band.

My 2 cents worth........

Jazzman 8)

 

BAnimalG

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2002, 06:10 AM »
Quote
You're such a very *friendly* person sidereal!  

Okay, that's not exactly what I said, but I can understand why it was edited.  lol!  So now I know that I can't say $lut on here.  hee hee   ;D

Matt Self

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2002, 10:10 AM »
Different scenario, same tension.

Was invited to go check out a local band at the behest of a friend of a friend. I had zero expectations, since this band had only been together for a few months. They weren't very tight and the drummer was woefully sloppy. However, I could not help but rave about the bassist. I was having a drummer orgasm about this guy. I live in a town with a very small number of capable bassists, and seeing this guy had me spastic.

The band kept trying to redirect my attention to get my comments on the rest of the band. I regret it, but I kept ignoring them to warn them that once word gets out about their bassist, they'll have to lock him up in a cage to keep him from leaving. If that's not bad ettiquette on my part, I don't know what it is, but it was pure honesty.

I have not been invited back to their shows, either as a guest or as a paying member of the audience. I did get word from the bassist, through a third party, to keep him in mind for any projects I may have in the fall, once their summer regional tour is over. LOL That's all I wanted, but I suppose I could have accomplished it with a slight bit more decorum.

I can be such a schmuck sometimes ...

Jazzman

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2002, 10:56 PM »
There was another time when I was asked to set in for a couple of songs at a gig(some band friends of mine).  The drummer left with some girl and got drunk.  The rest of the band was ticked off and asked me to keep playing to finish of the night......got paid too.  I didn't care I enjoyed playing the drums.

Jazzman 8)

Peter

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2002, 01:04 PM »
I know that I play in a different "arena" then most of you all, but drummers are drummers.

Well, anyways, how about different perspective on the discussion, one from the other guy?

I was the lead drummer for the pipeband I was with about 6 years.  On the first morning of a competition weekend I was working with the corps, and some dude I've never seen before comes up and interupts the run through.  Then, in front of the whole drum corps, proceeds to tell me that he is my replacement, and that he would let me play today since I was already there.  The drum corps was in disbelief as was I.  If it had happened at the beginning of the season it would have been different but it was at games just before Championships.  Up until then we had not placed lower than third.

But karma exists, I'm sure of it.  Two nights before the champs I got a phone call saying they needed a lead tip because the replacer could'nt found, didn't go to rehearsal, no conact.

It's all professional in my eyes, but it pays better to be tactful.  Otherwise karma may just bite you on the azz.

Peter


Offline Drumlooney

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Re:A question of etiquette
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2002, 01:34 PM »
You must be carefull,

I was once in a club for a friends b-day party and one of the three bands was waiting for their drummer to arrive, he was so late that the band leader who I had run into when he was walking in asked me to fill in until his guy arrived, so I did, the guy showed up at the end of the first set, you think he would be gratefull right?  Wrong in the next couple of weeks he made it his business to tell people I tried to steal his gig!!  so what started as a favor became a nightmare.

Just my two pennies.
You don't practice one day no one notices, you don't practice two days you notice, you don't practice three days everyone notices.

 

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