Topic: Where's music going?

[Bart Elliott]

Here's a new thread based on what Josiah said on another thread.

Do we see perhaps a decline in music as a whole? When music use to be groundbreaking, new, complex and flat out great. Where most new bands now see instead to simply hug tight to power chords and the typical song structure of the day. It seems like drum magazines such as Modern Drummer and Drum! are running out of "great" drummers to stick on their covers. This may be an interesting observation given the seeming decline in very technical drumming perhaps? Or is it simply the age gap of the adult drummer, who are insane, and guys like me who are still "up and coming" but not yet at that "great" level.. nor will be for a few years.

What are your thoughts?

[felix]

Under rocks, in cracks, hidden very well are monster bands.  Once in a while one is lucky enough to hear one.
There are a few in every city.  Some cities have more than others.

I think the music biz is in a recession.  I see all kinds of cd's for 10 bucks from big acts now.  I've never seen cd's that low.

I don't know music's going cause I'm still figuring out where it's been, but I know where I'm going to take it if I keep having the opportunity to play.  To me there is only one obvious direction- fusing instrumental rock or jazz with any style I dig with the tones/colors of today.  It's a  very simple realization and concept I've had for about 10 years.   It's not commercial but it is soooooooo satisfying.  When I play people some of our stuff, I get comments like "I havn't taken it out of my cd player for 2 days now" etc.  So I must be on the right track.  Over the top is the only way to go.

[felix]

Don't even think about being "great" either ever.  One performance, rehearsal, practice session at time thinking will keep you a lot saner.

I'm going to be a "great" drummer in four years...to me that sounds so funny.

[Matt Self (Gaddabout)]

The buzz in the industry is all about a return to straight-ahead rock-and-roll. Lots of talk right now about a band called The Strokes (from New York, I think).

[rlhubley]

I think music is going in wonderful places.  Yes, there is more crap out there today than there ever has been.  However, there is more good music ever as well, it just takes a bit more effort to sort through all the crap to find it.   As for drummers, it's the same.  There are tons of great drummers on the scene today.  MD could do a bit better about who they focus on, but, they're a business and have to cater to who is buying the magazines.  Sure, it might have the guy from Creed on the cover, but you'll still se articles with great jazz artists, wonderful technique columns, great reviews and more.  

There's simply more of everything today, good and bad.  Music will continue to grow, and with that growth will be many beautiful compositions.

[Josiah]

Ah..

Yea I didn't mean nessicraly that I would be "great'" in a few years, but simply a figure of speach.. there are a lot of younger players taht are very good, but not up at the level of the great drummers and wills til be a few yers before I think they will emurge onto into the music..

Though I do agree, you come across a lot fo little bands tucked away in various places that are just amazing, yet you don't see them getting rsigned , air play etc..

I would agree I think the music industry is in somewhat of a decline, both from sales and talent.

I have also heard that the record industry is going to head back into the rock and roll genere's and trying to capture the more 'organic' sounds.. might that be because of an over use of sampling and such?


Peace
Josiah

[Misenko]

There is FAR too much crap out there, not enough good solid, individual bands making it big. However, there a LOT of little bands out there who have great talent which never gets picked up! Music is run by businessmen, and no sane businesman wants to take the chance of losing money, thats why there is so much of the same out there, cause they know it works well in record sales. I was listening to a really great band called "The music" from over here in the UK, you might want to see if you can fins anything by them, they are small, but damned good!
 I am in a band myself, and beleive it or not, we go for a much more induvidual style, using classical guitar, odd time signitures, and more instrumental based songs rather than lyric based. Be individual, its a lot more fun that way!!!  

Misenko.

[luuker]

With new technology you can make almost anybody to sound decent. And in a way that is fine. I rather listen singers that ain't flat and grooves that doesn't suck.

BUT, those made-up-acts takes room from 'real' artists. From bands and singers that makes music and could become great if given a chance.
Now musicbiz relys too much on producers like Max Martin, who makes everybody sound alike. Martin's songs sounds good on radio and people like it, but it isn't very good for long run.

I really think record companies are taking shortcuts. I once interviewed Finnish top producer/songwriter (Finland's Max Martin) and he didn't understand at all when I tried to make my point about the issue. For him it doesn't matter if the singer can't sing or if the band can't play. Pro-Tools and Auto-Tune solves those problems for him!

He laughed about these 'old cats' who want to play their parts straight from beginning to the end. And these kind of guys make the popstars of today! Craftmanship and artisticality (is it a real word?? ) are NOT values that sells records. Ten one-hit-wonders and one producer is all you need.

For me it ain't enough. I get kicks listening to real people playing and making their own music.
IMHO, one producer simply can't measure up to 10 or 20 bands.

Maybe in the near future, the technology that is putting 'real' music down now, can save it the near future. Digital Recording makes it possible for almost everyone to make music and share it via internet.

I hope it does!
(and I hope this reply makes sense at all, too )

Luuker

[clearseawater]

Ratamatatt.......I dont know about the rarity of interest in Latin Ostinatos as it seems to be or has been in vogue (i bet you all think Madonna.......shame, that used to be "just" a word) for at least ten years. Highly musical plus it is something that modern drumset players are looking into with more frequency now(not just the jazzers).

If you are into extream independance Latin is a great platform but if you can, look into what Bozzio and Collins are doing and have your mind well and truely blown wide open.

[Felix Stein]

Broke into the "Forgotten Foot" again and I am going to make an attempt this year (could be two) to really get through this great book.

If you don't have it...get it- all I can say is it is great.

[Bart Elliott]

Broke into the "Forgotten Foot" again and I am going to make an attempt this year (could be two) to really get through this great book.

If you don't have it...get it- all I can say is it is great.

I've been working through it as well ... and I'm enjoying it.

[Steve_LeBlanc]

The buzz in the industry is all about a return to straight-ahead rock-and-roll. Lots of talk right now about a band called The Strokes (from New York, I think).

Don't believe the hype.

I think the very convenient idea of this happening has come and gone...the major labels couldn't help but see a return to London Underground type bands as being a gold mine...it's so easy for them to make money with bands like that.

Unfortunately for 'Them' ----The Strokes while tickling the fancy of the kids for a hot minute are proving to be a huge waste of money for their label. It just ain't gonna work...the Major Labels are pretty clueless now, they understand the Pop market but are back to not having a clue when it comes to Rock (like they were in the early 70s).

I'm of the opinion that ANYTHING can happen, we'll see.  

[Matt Self (Gaddabout)]

Unfortunately for 'Them' ----The Strokes while tickling the fancy of the kids for a hot minute are proving to be a huge waste of money for their label. It just ain't gonna work...the Major Labels are pretty clueless now, they understand the Pop market but are back to not having a clue when it comes to Rock (like they were in the early 70s).

If indie labels ever got smart and started pooling their talents to build networks, I think they'd all be able to promote their acts' stuff better, and they wouldn't have such a problem with bands fleeing to bigger labels (and getting lost in the corporate quicksand) when they out-grow their tiny distributorship.

Isn't that the bottom line for most indie labels? If they could simply do two things -- form a consortium of regional distributorships and promotional agencies -- they could really do an end-runaround of the dinosaurs with the big bucks.

With movies and music, everything's geared toward the pre-teen and teen demographic. I happen to know lots of adults who love movies and music, including me, but we all feel pretty alienated right now.

[rlhubley]

I agree Gadd.  There is no push for adult's who actually enjoy music for more than background music.  In fact, I bet their are a few million of us who actually DON'T buy Michael Bolton or Kenny G albums!  Imagine that    
Most people don't have the time or desire to research and keep up with what's new.  So, they buy what they hear on the radio or what they see advertised in the store.  

[Matt Self (Gaddabout)]

I agree Gadd.  There is no push for adult's who actually enjoy music for more than background music.  In fact, I bet their are a few million of us who actually DON'T buy Michael Bolton or Kenny G albums!  Imagine that    
Most people don't have the time or desire to research and keep up with what's new.  So, they buy what they hear on the radio or what they see advertised in the store.  

There are some interesting artists out there making some good music who just can't gain the visibility of artists geared towards teens.

For example, Edwin McCain puts together some nice stuff. Maybe he's not very original, but he's very good at what he does, and I love his band. Just 20 years ago he would've been considered straight-ahead rock, but segmentation has pushed him into the tiny niche of folk-rock or the dreaded adult contemporary category (isn't that just artistic death?). The fact that he's actually gained in popularity the last 3 or 4 years can only be credited to hard work and an earnest desire to write some good music.

Ben Folds is another guy who I think can write some outstanding pop and rock songs. He does whatever the heck he wants, because he's still mostly independent. He can really grab you with some of his hooks and lyrics. I hope he continues and doesn't get burned out.

There's a semi-popular group from Minnesota called Semisonic. I can't remember the main guy, but I think they've made some very good music in the past. I liked several of the songs from their previous album. Train made some good stuff the last two years, too, although they're definately swimming in a bigger pond than any of the others I've mentioned.

I still have hope for new pop and rock music, but I also know there will never be a shortage of teenage girls craving the next new clean-cut crooner. I don't mind as long as I'm not totally left in the dust as a consumer.

[Carn]

well i found this on the machinehead (its a metal band, for the ones who dont know them), it are some words from Robb Flynn (singer/guitarist):

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone recently told me that they thought Machine Head were limited because we couldn't ever make a record in the vein of Incubus, or Deftones...which I completely agreed with. I also pointed out that Deftones and Incubus are just as limited, because they couldn't ever make an album in the vein of Machine Head.
It's kind of dumb, if you think about it. We offer one thing to the world, they offer something else, Duh!? I firmly believe that no one can offer the world what Machine Head can, because there's only one Machine Head. Just as no one else can offer the world, what both of those incredible bands do.
The world of music is a better place, because of those limitations, not in spite of them.

Our limitations force us to be the best ...at what "we" do.
--------------------------

any comments on this?

[nullify_drummer]

i'm 15, but i think most of todays music sucks big time. i cant talk about music with hardly anyone my age or around cause i like the good late 60's and the 70's classic rock, personally and most people like the new crap.  and nothing came good outta the 80's hardly, but i think eventually the music world is gonna almost die out, and make a huge comeback, and kick @$$l again like it did in the 70's and 60's

[Carn]

i actually like 80ies pop music, duran duran and such, most of them were great musicians

[nullify_drummer]

i didn't mean all 80's, just like the 80's hair metal, but i'm a big fan of nirvana.

[va87]

My two cents worth........
 The eighties were such a total moonscape of music that I began then to get very much into Jazz,i.e., guys like Larry Carlton, Lee Ritenour, Al Dimeola, and drummers like Harvey Mason, Vinnie Coliuta(sp??), Omar Hakim, Rick and Jerry Marotta.........Rock and roll took a nose dive after about 1978. I mean, look at John Bonham: He was doing things with Zepplin that no body else was even THINKING about at the time! Innovative, blinding chops, played totally for the song. of course there were the exceptions in the 80's......Simon Phillips, Jeff Porcaro, Phil Collins.......guys giving it their all to make rock a better place to be.
Today, I'm stuck in the jazz/fusion thing and very happy there. A friend played Tool's "Lateralus" for me.......Carey is very good, but the music is just..........well, I hear rehashed grunge with screaming vocals, max volume levels with occassional dynamic recessions for the sake of making the volume more explosive, and the same basic structures and rhythms over and over again.
 I'm quite very happy listening to Lee Ritenour's "WesBound" with Harvey or Sting's "Ten summoner Tales" with Vinnie. Guess I'm getting old