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Snare solos

Started by Big Yummy, June 14, 2002, 09:51 AM

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Big Yummy

I'm looking for a book with some snare solos to study.  

The problem is that all the ones I have are at military tempos, about 100 to 120, and almost all the music I play is between about 80 and 90.

If I slow the solos down, they don't sound like anything.  If I double them up to 160 to 180, they're just too fast for me to play.

What I need are some solos written for the same tempos that most pop songs are played.

Does anyone know of a book with these sort of snare solos?

rlhubley

Buy the Rudimental Cookbook, it has solos from EASY to Ridiculous!!  Don't worry about the tempo so much.  If it is too slow at 90bpm,  go to 110bpm.  If that is too slow build up 2-4 or 5 bpm/day until you can double the tempos.  Keep in mind there is a wide range of IMPORTANT tempos between 80 and 180 bpm!!

Big Yummy

Thanks, but...

Actually, I'm specifically looking for stuff that sounds good between 80 and 90 (or 160 and 180).

In other words, a solo that would be played at the same tempo as a quick pop tune.

I've met people were played in marching bands and then found there was no real transfer of skills when they tried to play kit.  That was because the stuff they learned in band was at completely different tempos than they would use when playing with a pop band.

Bart Elliott

I agree with Rlhubley in that the tempos are irrelevant at this point. The exception might be if you are trying to play something that is very difficult ... and was not written to be played fast, etc.

As far as snare drum solo collections, here's a few books that would be great to add to your library.

  • The Solo Snare Drummer - Advanced Etudes & Duets by Vic Firth
  • The Complete Works of William G. Street
  • Contemporary Studies for the Snare Drum by Fred Albright
  • Drum Method by Charley Wilcoxon
  • Wm. F. Ludwig Collection Drum Solos
  • Portraits in Rhythm by Anthony J. Cirone
If you want non-rudimental solos, get Portraits in Rhythm. It still has flams, drags and assorted roll types, but it's not sticking oriented ... so no paradiddles, etc. You can add them in of course.

For a rock oriented approach, I would highly recommend the William Street book. Lots of accents, triplets, quintuplets, sextuplets, flams, rolls, and syncopated rhythms.

For a jazz oriented approach, I would recommend getting the Charlie Wilcoxon book.

All of these books will work for any style; I just suggested these as the ones to get if you don't know where to start.

There are a lot of books out there ... and all of them would be good to use. I just tried to pick some that were diverse and easy to adapt to the drumkit.

Hope this helps.

Big Yummy

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll have to get a couple of the books.

I'm baffled by is the tempo issue, though.  Either I'm missing something, or I'm seeing something that isn't readily apparent.

As an example, I'm looking at a snare solo from Alfred's Drum Method, Book 2.  The suggested tempo is 120.  I can play that anywhere between 100 and 120 and it sounds like what it is, a snare solo in a marching band style.  But if I slow it down to 80, it doesn't sound like much of anything other than dull plodding.  

Perhaps it's just my inability to make them sound good with anything other than the most obvious interpreations, but it seems to me that solos are written to suit specific ranges of tempo, and all the ones I've come across so far are in  the marching band style and are suited to the 100 to 120 range.

Hopefully, if I check out the books written for the Rock and Jazz idioms, the solos will be suited to other ranges of tempo (at least according to my ears.)

Bart Elliott

Quote from: TMe on June 17, 2002, 08:25 AMI'm baffled by is the tempo issue, though.  Either I'm missing something, or I'm seeing something that isn't readily apparent.

As an example, I'm looking at a snare solo from Alfred's Drum Method, Book 2.  The suggested tempo is 120.  I can play that anywhere between 100 and 120 and it sounds like what it is, a snare solo in a marching band style.  But if I slow it down to 80, it doesn't sound like much of anything other than dull plodding.  

Okay, here's the issue:

A sixteenth-note is a sixteenth-note, is a sixteenth-note. If you play consecutive sixteenth-notes there is a certain amount of space between each note right? So if you are performing them at 120 bpm ... the space between each note is going to be shorter than when you perform the same sixteenth-notes at 80 bpm. There's nothing you can do about it. If is sounds too open or not enough going on, double up on the tempo. In this case, the sixteenth-note will be written as is ... but will sound like a thirty-second-note.

You've only got a number of note values to work with man. Either duple or triple ... quarters, eighths, sixteenths, thirty-second, etc. ... that's it! You can rolls, flams, drags, accents, dynamics, etc., ... and that's it!

Any sixteenth-note or eighth-note is going to feel slow when you play it SLOW. To me, finding a snare solo that is written for a slower tempo marking, like 80 or 90 bpm, is not going to solve your problem because it's still going to sound slow.

I think you just need to be creative with the solos. If it sounds like "dull plodding" ... then spice it up! Add diddles, flams, etc. .... or play it all twice as fast. The only other way to fill up the space is to play quintuplets or other odd note groupings. Doing this in pop situation may or may not work.

Hope this makes sense.

Be creative ... modify the snare solos to work for your tempo marking. Remember, the solo can be the coolest thing since the creation of the world, but a sixteenth-note, regardless of how many you play, will sound the same in EVERY SNARE SOLO ... if played at 80 bpm.

Sorry if I'm over emphasizing the obvious.

rlhubley

I think you are confused as to what the point of working from a snare study book is.  IMO, you work from a snare solo book to develop reading, hand technique, hand fluidity, and musicality.  These are all VERY important in the develpoment of a drummer.  Once you can play a solo at the prescribed tempo, you can challenge yourself by increasing the tempo a bit(which carries over the kit) or slowing the solo WAY down, this is much, much harder than you realize.   The tempo is important when working on these solos, HOWEVER, what is important about tempo is that you play the solo IN tempo.  Playing it in tempo is MORE important than how many bpm the tempo actually is.  Remember, it can always go faster or slower!

Now, this can all be applied to the kit.  However, that is a discussion for a different thread.  It seems to me that you are wanting to work on a specific tempo range behind the kit.  This is a great thing to work on, but I don't think working out snare drum solos is the best way to go about it.  Get yourself a good reading book(I suggest a book by Gary Hess, but I'll have to get back with the name.  Felix knows what I'm talking about!), and I also suggest you invest in a some of the drum bibles, these are 1. Stick Control - George L. Stone, 2. Syncopation - Ted Reed, and 3. The New Breed - Gary Chester(make sure to get the FIRST one!!!).  

All 4 of those books will help with reading, interpretation, and feel, and all of them can be used in MANY different ways.  Specifically, The New Breed is one of the better books for drumset work, especially if you need material to work on, but lack access to a teacher.  This book is HARD, be warned!!  But, it will work on independance, groove, reading, time, and feel.  And it is quite easy to adapt EVERY SINGLE exercise in the book to the tempo range you are so interested in, however it will take you years to do so!! (BTW, that last statement is no exaggeration.)  Buy at least that book, and post any questions you are certain to have.

I hope this helps you.

Bart Elliott

Quote from: rlhubley on June 17, 2002, 09:02 AM
I think you are confused as to what the point of working from a snare study book is.

Now, this can all be applied to the kit.  However, that is a discussion for a different thread.  It seems to me that you are wanting to work on a specific tempo range behind the kit.  This is a great thing to work on, but I don't think working out snare drum solos is the best way to go about it.

I think you are confused with what he's wanting the solos for ..... or maybe I'm confused.

From what I understand TMe is wanting to take these snare solos and apply them into radio friendly tunes that he is playing. He's focusing on the slower tempos because that is what a lot of commercial music is played at. If guessing that if he's playing with a band, he's wanting to be able to pull out these snare solos and play them within the song ... using them as if they were his own ideas within a drum solo or using them as building blocks.

So basically, he's wanting to apply the solos ... intact.

Other than that, I agree with you Robert.

Big Yummy

Thanks again for the advice.  

Just to clarify:

To keep my chops up, I'd like to replace some of my daily drills with snare solos that involve the same core techniques as the songs I'm working on.

I want to play the solos at the same speed I would actually use the techniques, within the context of a song.  It would be nice if the solos could sound like music at those tempos.

As for playing someone else's solo note-for-note on stage, that's not a bad idea.  I'm an amateur playing in a recreational cover band, so I can get away with stuff like that.  The odds of finding a solo that happen to fit a particular song well enough are pretty slim, though, and I'm not a fan of the free-standing drum solo.

Bart Elliott

Okay .... well, I think Rlhubley understood what you were wanting more than I did. I stand corrected.

I'll say one more thing about the snare solos.

Rudimental snare solos were written original with marching in mind. You don't march at 80 or 90 bpm. Walking pace is considered to be 100 bpm ... at least, and most marches are performed faster than that (110-120 bpm).

As far as musical snare solos ... I would buy the Portraits in Rhythm snare collection as these are extremely musical and are written for numerous tempo markings ... many of them slow.

felix

THEN SHUTUP AND WRITE YOUR OWN SOLOS.

My gawd, you get some great advice from great drummers and you still can't utilize it?  Are you even trying????  Hate to be a prick, but listen to yourself.

GET REAL and get practicing.

Big Yummy

Now, now, Felix.  Have you had your coffee yet?

Perhaps if I'd been more clear when I originally asked the question...

Anyway, thanks for the advice.

SteveG

I'd go with Bart's suggestion of Portraits. That book (unless you are a drumming wizard) will really challenge you with time signatures, tempos, dynamics, and more dynamics. This book is meant to be studied not sightread. God bless you if you can sight read these exercises right down the page.

You also might want to check out Wilcoxen's Rudimental Snare Drum Solo's if you are looking for marching type exercises. It is a much easier read than Portraits.


Peter

TMe,

The follow are links to a solo peice that can be play in your range of beats per minute that you mentioned.  It is two pages long.  Just a wee hint the rolls are buzz rolls.  You will notice grace notes infront of the rolls, they may not look it but play em as flams.

They are written in Swiss Basel notation.  Right hand on top left hand on bottom,I mean no offense hear but I don't know your music reading background.

www.canadianstandard.ca/wtsi/images/scores/fanfare1.gif

www.canadianstandard.ca/wtsi/images/scores/fanfare2.gif

Hope this helps, if not I have a good 12/8 solo set for 90 to 94 bpm, I'll be more than happy to send it to if you wish.

I have played both and they are a great deal of fun.

Cheers,

Peter

Ratamatatt

Quote from: Bartman on June 14, 2002, 02:49 PM
I agree with Rlhubley in that the tempos are irrelevant at this point. The exception might be if you are trying to play something that is very difficult ... and was not written to be played fast, etc.

As far as snare drum solo collections, here's a few books that would be great to add to your library.

  • The Solo Snare Drummer - Advanced Etudes & Duets by Vic Firth
  • The Complete Works of William G. Street
  • Contemporary Studies for the Snare Drum by Fred Albright
  • Drum Method by Charley Wilcoxon
  • Wm. F. Ludwig Collection Drum Solos
  • Portraits in Rhythm by Anthony J. Cirone
If you want non-rudimental solos, get Portraits in Rhythm. It still has flams, drags and assorted roll types, but it's not sticking oriented ... so no paradiddles, etc. You can add them in of course.

For a rock oriented approach, I would highly recommend the William Street book. Lots of accents, triplets, quintuplets, sextuplets, flams, rolls, and syncopated rhythms.

For a jazz oriented approach, I would recommend getting the Charlie Wilcoxon book.

All of these books will work for any style; I just suggested these as the ones to get if you don't know where to start.

There are a lot of books out there ... and all of them would be good to use. I just tried to pick some that were diverse and easy to adapt to the drumkit.

Hope this helps.

Bart, I read in MD that Philly Joe Jones was a desciple of the Wilcoxon method.  Is his book a technique book or an etude book?  Is it still in print?

Ratamatatt

felix

It is very much in print.

They are rudimental solos with an artistic twist.  The name of the rudiments used in each solo are printed at the bottom of the page, but usually sticking isn't implied if I remember correctly (I have the book but havn't worked out of it n a long time)...so it's an etude in that respect (you stick it like you want).

Bart Elliott

The Charley Wilcoxon book is a method/etude book, with 92 lessons.

As to whether it's still in print, that's a perfect question for accusonic to answer since he's the librarian at Steve Weiss Music.

felix

You should check out "Portraits..." if you don't have that one yet- that book is a masterpiece of solos.  I need to start working with it and I need to have my old instructor back to complete the book.  There is NO FOOLING AROUND in that one.   To do it right you need a great player to show you how they should sound.  That will turn your hands into, well, artist's hands if you can play it like it's written at the tempos called out.

We just talked about a month ago, my old teacher and I, so that is cool.


felix

Is there a difference between a method book and an etude book?  I don't even know what an etude is.  I think it's a solo.

I actually had tons of snare drum lessons believe it or not.  It has to be the most boring instrument in the world to practice LOL.

accusonic

As noted by Felix, the Wilcoxon "Drum Method" is still in print. You might also want to check out his "Modern Rudimental Swing Solos"; it's exactly what the title implies (well, except for the word "Modern"-it's from 1941). The Schinstine "Southern Special" book referred to earlier in this thread is also still available.

Another excellent "concert" or "orchestral" style book that hasn't been mentioned yet is the Delecluse 12 Etudes for snare drum. It includes a wide range of styles, tempos and meters.

Ratamatatt

From yourdictionary.com

e·tude n. Music

1.  A piece composed for the development of a specific point of technique.

2.  A composition featuring a point of technique but performed because of its artistic merit.

I always thought an etude was just an instrumental solo.

Ratamatatt

Bart Elliott

I stated "method/etude" because it's BOTH ... not trying to imply that the two terms are synonymous.

Yes ... the Wilcoxon book is full of etudes ... but they are structured in such a way, with lesson material, so that it's also a method book. The etudes are part of the lessons .... it's not just a book of solos.

Make sense?

Mister Acrolite

For the kind of solos TME originally asked for, I think Pratt's rudimental solos and the previously mentioned Rudimental Cookbook are good options.

For some ridiculously hard rudimental pieces, check out Rick Beckham's The Rudimental Drummer. It's just plain sick. But he (Rick) can play that stuff - he's perpetually ranked as the number 1 or 2 rudimental drummer at national contests. Very cool guy, too - he's answered a lot of my questions via e-mail.

For non-rudimental solos, the Cirone book is good, but I always liked Delecluse better. And actually one of my favorite books of snare solos was written by Vic Firth - I like his book way better than Cirone. Also Al Payson and Mitchell Peters have some great snare solos.

Solo snare drumming seems to be becoming a dying art, but most of today's virtuoso drumset players are also bad@ss snare drummers.

BigBillInBoston

Ah yes...rudimental snare drum solos. It seems like only yestersday (actually early sixties) when I would be playing "The Downfall of Paris" or "Connecticut Halftime" at a band contest somewhere.

One problem I always had was finding a way to get the snare drum to waist height so I could play it properly (I'm 6'6"). The drumstands available then wouldn't go high enough. I literally had a wooden crate I carried with me and put the fully extended stand on to bring the snare to the proper height.

As you can guess, many of my fellow rudimental  "drummies" thought this was quite funny.

BigBill

felix

You got thru the Cirone book?  Crap, that's a tough one.
Oh, sorry, I should instant message U...maybe next time.


I havn't seen the Vic Firth or the other guys book you mentioned.  There are two books in my "Music Dispatch" catalog that are from Gary Whaley marked "difficult"...LOL only his books are marked difficult or medium difficult in the whole snare drum section.  Any one every play his stuff?

accusonic

Whaley (Garwood, not Gary--I hope we're talking about the same guy) has written a couple of decent beginner/intermediate method books for snare drum, timpani and mallets (I've used them successfully with some students), but so far hasn't published anything that I would characterize as difficult.

As long as we're including difficult rudimental books in our discussion, You should check out the newest John Pratt book (published last year), "Rudimental Solos for Accomplished Drummers". Great stuff, much harder than any of his previous material.

Mister Acrolite

Quote from: accusonic on February 28, 2003, 10:56 AM
As long as we're including difficult rudimental books in our discussion, You should check out the newest John Pratt book (published last year), "Rudimental Solos for Accomplished Drummers". Great stuff, much harder than any of his previous material.

Pratt's got a new book? Wow - that's great! I always thought his solos were much more musical than most rudimental solos. I'll have to put that on my wish list - thanks!

Mister Acrolite

Quote from: felix on February 28, 2003, 10:41 AM
I havn't seen the Vic Firth or the other guys book you mentioned.  

I believe the Vic Firth book is called The Solo Snare Drummer. I haven't been through it in years, but I remember it being one of my favorites.

As much as you dig odd rhythms, you'd love the Delecluse book. Its title (in French) is the equivalent of "Twelve Etudes for Snare Drum" - this is one of the hardest, coolest sets of snare solos ever.

Cirone is nothing to sneeze at - don't get me wrong. I just enjoyed these more from a musical standpoint. They're ALL really difficult! The Firth book has some easier stuff in it, too, but the beefy stuff is quite challenging and rhythmically complex.

felix

Garwood, right, just testing you. ;D

Yeah, "My Friend Norman" rocked...is that the Pratt who did the first set of Pratt solos?

I don't dig odd rhythms...I hate them actually LOL, but they make me a better drummer I guess, well at least keep me counting.

Ok, enough fooling around-  GET BACK TO YOUR SNARE

Drumbo

I agree that Chas. Wilcoxen's "Rudimental Swing Solo's" might be the ticket.  They are ideally played at 110-120 bpm, but it takes a long while to work them up that fast. 80-90 bpm sounds like a comfortable clip for all those back-to-back triple ratamacues and double flam paradiddlediddles.